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Message started by AnthonyT on 11/24/3 at 23:53:01

Title: Winter Tire Recommendations
Post by AnthonyT on 11/24/3 at 23:53:01

Hey all (especially winter rally series people), I posted a similar request before but mistakedly on the buy/sell board. I am actually looking for opinions.

What winter tires have you tried that you really liked, cheap and/or expensive. My favorites to date was a set of Khumo 7400 - a directional snow+ice - unfortunately they don't come in a 175/70/13.

Thoughts??

Title: Re: Winter Tire Recommendations
Post by rallyguy on 11/25/3 at 10:09:16

Any high-quality SNOW tire will work well for the winter events. We've run Blizzaks (WS-50's now) for the past 5+ years - both in Winter rallies and the winter performace events with great results - read lots of "zeros".

I've stopped at controls, on what I thought was gravel - gotten out of the car and darn near fallen on my ass. We were on SHEER ICE! The Blizzaks made it feel like packed snow or even loose gravel - they gave us so much grip. Admittedly - we were in an AWD car - but that has no real effect on braking or cornering - the tires really did make a huge difference.

While "cheap" tires might seem like a deal - I think they're a false economy - since fixing body work (or worse!) damage caused by a big "off" can quickly consume any savings you realised by scrimping on tires.

Buy GOOD snow/ice tires and good lights - and you'll have way more fun in the winter drivex events.

Just my $0.02.

RK

Title: Re: Winter Tire Recommendations
Post by luv2drift on 11/26/3 at 11:26:38

I've been running 13' Blizzak's on my Golf road car for a few years now and they work quite well. Getting the car 'loose' at sane winter speeds takes some effort. Cons, they are very soft and will wear quickly through 'spirited' driving in the dry.

Title: Re: Winter Tire Recommendations
Post by Schwabe on 11/26/3 at 14:01:00

In snow the best tires I've tried so far are Nokian Hakka 1, but they suck on icy surfaces. Excellent on ice, and possibly the best overall that I've tried were the Yokohama Guardex 720.

Title: Re: Winter Tire Recommendations
Post by AnthonyT on 11/26/3 at 18:06:20

Hey guys and gals,

I have to say - I've done Blizzaks - They are currently on the Miata - They have performed decently and even after a couple of winters. I am not convinced however that they worked better then the Khumos which were
40$ less per tire.

I am currently waiting on prices for a set of Hakka Qs and a Perelli winter tire with similar tread pattern (the "salesman" tells me they performed equally well but with the Perellis coming in at a better price)

I also found a super deal on a set of Cooper Weathermasters - on sale, 290$ , installed and balanced - taxes included. (and if you're willing to take the Cooper knock off, same tread pattern without the name - the price drops to 262$ for four, taxes in!)

Thanks for the feedback, any other opinons are welcome - it'll still be a couple weeks before I buy.

Anthony

Title: Re: Winter Tire Recommendations
Post by Craig_Hamm on 11/27/3 at 08:43:05

I seem to recall that the Weathermasters are not a very soft compound. So, they might look good, agressive, but won't perform too well in -20C, typical Ontario temperatures during the winter rally season. Maybe a great DOT 'gravel tire' as I've heard is done in some SCCA rallyX. I've never seen anyone on the PIRELLI (note spelling) tires.

Toyo Observe are very popular, too. I use Blizzak, and they are fantastic. I like the Guardex 720's, too.

ymmv

Title: Re: Winter Tire Recommendations
Post by ash on 11/27/3 at 16:23:30

Nokian Hakka 2's all the way!
the NRW 's aren't to bad either...
as for the Hakka 1's they stopped making them, so if u get them, they are older stock, as for the Hakka 2's I got a set on my Subaru and they are AMAZING! far superior to ANY tire on the market..
as for the cost.. depending on the size of the tire, your looking at between 600 - 1000 installed (my friends A6 costed 1000) :)
Fred's in Orangeville have them in STOCK and you'll be in and out in an hour... all done :)
g'luck!

Title: Re: Winter Tire Recommendations
Post by AnthonyT on 11/28/3 at 00:03:44

The Hakka2s look good but what about the studs? They are not yet legal - what are the chances of getting caught and what would be the penelties if you did? What about disqualification in a winter rally? (mabey I should not mention this last point)

(The "Pirellis" - Winter Carving, a new model, looks like a Hakka knockoff) anyone heard?

Title: Re: Winter Tire Recommendations
Post by ash on 11/28/3 at 00:10:53

what do you mean not legal????????????
for street use or Navigational rallying use??
as for the roads the Hakka 2's are fine, we got 3 sets this week done at Fred's in Orangeville..

Title: Re: Winter Tire Recommendations
Post by AnthonyT on 12/01/3 at 00:21:15

In Ontario - as far as I know (I am looking for confirmation) - Studded tires are illegal for use on Ontario roads. Several people are looking to have this changed (ie: Sudbury MPP Rick Bartollucci and the Ontario Fire Cheifs Association). The Honorable Rick Bartollucci (LIB) Put forth a private members bill proposing an amendment to the Highway Traffic Act which would allow studded tires (for the first time since 1970) by residents of Northern Ontario.

From what I can see on the Ontario Legislature website the bill (bill 57 if I am not mistaken) only made it through 1st reading (therefor not proclaimed into law).

What I beleive is the current law is stated at the following http://www.oafc.on.ca/committees/Legislative/Resolutions/2003/Resolutions2003.pdf
and says that studded tires are prohibited on Ontario roadways and is punishable by a 1000$ fine. I must say - I was not able to find this in an online document claiming to be the Highway Traffic Act.

As for the rallying concern - correct me if I am wrong -but - in terms of a navigational rally, on public roads - if you contravene a section of the H.T.A. (ie speeding, reckless driving or studded tires if illegal) would you not be disqualified from the event?

Am I right on this?

Title: Re: Winter Tire Recommendations
Post by AnthonyT on 12/01/3 at 00:25:54

Sorry to be a downer on that one - don't get me wrong -I'd LOVE studded Hakkas - I would just want to know the potential implications if someone decided I was breaking the law.

Title: Re: Winter Tire Recommendations
Post by ash on 12/01/3 at 01:51:51

Hakka 1 and 2's are NOT STUDDED tires... they are perfectly street legal...
so they are still the best tires you can buy on the market, I just drove up to North Bay with them and the AWD Subaru, an UNBEATABLE combination, the safest thing on the road... without a doubt....

Title: Re: Winter Tire Recommendations
Post by AnthonyT on 12/01/3 at 12:12:31

North Bay is where I live actually - I see much ice and snow and I take your word that they work wonders.

Now, mabey things have changed between this year and last - but according to the 2002/2003 information I got from the Nokian folder:
The Hakka 1 is a studdable snow tire
The Hakka 2 is available "Only Factory Studded" (as in not available without studs)

The dealer here said there was no problems selling the tire - legal or not.

Anyway - I no longer see the page on the MTO site explaining in explicit terms the ban on studded tires so I'll be giving them a call to confirm.

Thanks for your insight and encouragement.

AN UPDATE - I called the MTO - Studs are still illegal - the fine is 1000$ - see the bottom of this page (this site has all Ontario laws BTW.
http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca:81/ISYSquery/IRLBB9F.tmp/13/doc

Title: Re: Winter Tire Recommendations
Post by RallyJake on 12/02/3 at 21:08:36

Hmmm,

All these recommendations sound good.
But what about tires like:
Vredestein??
Gislaved??
Matador??

All of those are used in rallies. How come nobody so far mentioned those????

Title: Re: Winter Tire Recommendations
Post by ash on 12/02/3 at 23:56:50

possibly cause their more for stages and don't LAST very long maybe???

Title: Re: Winter Tire Recommendations
Post by RallyJake on 12/03/3 at 21:31:52

Not true.
Excellent traction.
Wear is about the same for all.
However, like all tires each has different advantages.
I know Vredestain, has the best rated lateral grip.
Don't remember the rest of the top of my head.

Title: Re: Winter Tire Recommendations
Post by jailbreak2000 on 12/15/3 at 15:35:53

Just to clarify an earlier point about Hakka 2s in Ontario, they are STUDDABLE, and are sold here without studs.

And yes, check out Fred's Tire in Orangeville for the best deal.

Title: Re: Winter Tire Recommendations
Post by AnthonyT on 12/15/3 at 23:45:51

Thanks, the information in my 2002/2003 folder must be dated - the hakka 2s look like a way to go. I would like to add though that I think John has a valid point. Considering their ongoing support rallying in Canada Yokohama does deserve our support - I have owned their tires and they do make a quality product.