MLRC Forum https://www.mlrc.ca/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl General >> Rally >> Driving impressions of AWD cars https://www.mlrc.ca/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1092247012 Message started by rallyguy on 08/11/4 at 12:56:52

Title: Driving impressions of AWD cars Post by rallyguy on 08/11/4 at 12:56:52 As many of you might know - I campaigned an Isuzu Impulse RS in regional and winter rallying for several years. After a season off, and having sold that car - I'm itching to get something AWD and do some winter rallying again. The question becomes... What car do I get? I'd like a "winter beater" class vehicle, although I "could" be tempted to spend more. I NEED AWD, been driving that config for too long to go back. The Isuzu was a tight and tossable package (with rally suspension) that had more that decent scoot (165HP+) I'm not terribly picky. Cars I'm tempeted by include: Celica All Trac Turbos (ST185's), Talons (But are they pigs?), Suby 2.5 RS's, 323 GTX's etc. From those who driven these types of cars in anger - can you offer suggestions and driving impressions? Thanks in advance. RK

Title: Re: Driving impressions of AWD cars Post by RyanHuber on 08/11/4 at 17:08:36 Being on my second older Legacy now,  this one turbo and 5-speed, I can say that the car handles really nicely (well, not at the moment, the original stock struts just went at 220K). Most bits made for the GC8 chassis Impreza fit the 90-94 Legacies as well, so I've got plenty of aftermarket bits available. I just wish the car was lighter (3100lbs, an RS can shave about 250lbs off that at least). I hope to see you out there again soon Robinson, you were quick in that Isuzu.

Title: Re: Driving impressions of AWD cars Post by John_Vanos on 08/11/4 at 17:41:54 I bought a 2001 2.5RS last Dec. and am so impressed with the car.  It handles very well stock with understeer at turn in but that can usually be compensated by a jab on the throttle to even it up.  The engine is quite impressive as well.  The motor pulls strong everywhere in the revs and also just feels tough.  In fact the whole car has a very solid feel that I have grown quickly to love.  If you want a car that is newer and relatively easy to get parts for then I would highly recommend the RS.  I made sure to get a 01 or 00 to get the rear LSD as well. Other cars mentioned like the alltrac and GTX would be very neat cars but the parts are ludicrously expensive for them.

Title: Re: Driving impressions of AWD cars Post by xchox on 08/12/4 at 10:10:15 ???323 ??? If your considering a 323 you had might as well consider a Subaru Justy :P Anyways I own a 92 Eagle Talon TSi AWD and its not a pig, The only thing is you have to run premium! My car handles tighter then a nuns  8) 8) 8) 8)! lol But you sacrifice due to the cost of repairs on the vehicle! If you are considering getting a talon, what kinda price range are you looking at cause ive been thinking of selling mine! www.cardomain.com/id/xchox PS excuse the rambles of junk pics on there! I have to clean it up still! I have a 4G64 DOHC TURBO under the hood though... The 4G63 might guzzle more gas! Im not sure...

Title: Re: Driving impressions of AWD cars Post by Jeannie on 08/12/4 at 12:24:18 John_Vanos wrote on 08/11/4 at 17:41:54: I bought a 2001 2.5RS last Dec. and am so impressed with the car. I have an '01 2.5RS as well and really like it. It's also very practical for driving here in the country, particularly in winter. I used to have an E36 BMW but my husband (who had a '98 2.5RS) not only got tired of hauling me out (it always got stuck in the snow!), he convinced me to sell it and join the "RS" club. I'm so glad I did!! We even campaigned his RS at Targa last year, once we converted it to a caged beast. I am hooked on Subies!! Jeannie

Title: Re: Driving impressions of AWD cars Post by Robert Roaldi on 08/12/4 at 21:52:25 Robinson, Forget AWD. The perfect cars for doing winter rallies are mid to late 80's Tercels.  :) Second choice is Suzuki GT. You want something light so that's it easier to push out of snow drifts. :)

Title: Re: Driving impressions of AWD cars Post by rallyguy on 08/12/4 at 22:43:57 Well - I'd like to think that my finishing record suggects that I (we) don't go INTO the snow banks too often. Although - of course it DOES happen. I don't think I could ever go back to 2WD for rallying. The Porsche is a total handful in the dry compared to the rally car. IN the snow it's not even useful to compare. RK

Title: Re: Driving impressions of AWD cars Post by ErikO on 08/15/4 at 10:06:08 xchox, the 323 GTX Robinson was referring to was the awd, turbo version offered in 1988-9. An awesome little car, but none left around here. Except for Bellefleur's, of course. I saw a few georgeous ones in Australia though. As for your decision Robinson, I'd go with the 2.5RS. they are an awesome drive, and parts are easy to find and cheap. I'd personally stay away from older turbo cars (sorry Ryan...) since the turbos will likely be shot after a few hundred thousand kays, and they can be pricey to replace. Plus, for the winter events, power isn't what you necessarily need..... Or opt for an old Volvo wagon, they seem to be competitive in the right hands.  ;D My $0.02 Erik

Title: Re: Driving impressions of AWD cars Post by Nuwan on 08/15/4 at 11:10:59 Sticktly speaking from a geographic perspective, there isn't any other AWD car that you can find parts/spares for as easy as a suby, not referring to performance parts alone but replacements for damaged/broken parts. If we were in europe this would be a different story as they get a better variety to choose from. If you have the funds the 2.5RS is a great handling package with 165hp/torque stock and as John mentioned the '00/'01 models come with a VLSD in the rear. I'd have to disagree with ErikO however, the stock legacys turbo rarely has issues and there are numerous examples with 300,000km+ and no boost issues. I'm running between 13-15psi (stock=8.7) with 200,000+kms... if for any reason it does fail, you can drop in a WRX turbo with minor mods which will only cost a couple hundred dollars used. And there are tons of spare parts for these cars at the wreckers ;)  Only the '91 models came with the LSD

Title: Re: Driving impressions of AWD cars Post by RyanHuber on 08/15/4 at 15:15:34 Yup, if my turbo were to go, I'd just have an excuse to drop in a VF34  ;D Paul's legacy has almost 400K on it now, no problems.

Title: Re: Driving impressions of AWD cars Post by darryl on 08/16/4 at 11:14:23 Wow, everyone has gone Subaru crazy. I have to say a few points for the Mitsu Talon. When it comes to costs and parts availability you can't beat the first generation Talon. Streetable cars range from $1000-3000. Used parts are cheap and very available. Heck I just recently bought a running 91 FWD Turbo car for 50 bucks! Try making a find like that for your 2.5RS. As for performance and handling, it's debatable either way. I can't argue with the Subaru track record but.... Janusz Komorowski finished 7th at this years Rocky Mountain Rally in a P4 1991 Talon. Not bad for a 13year old car. I guess I'm a little biased because I own a Talon and have never driven a Subaru.  Who knows, maybe if I drove a Subaru I'd be hooked. Cheers, Darryl Check out http://www.ca.dsm.org/ for more info on the Talon.

Title: Re: Driving impressions of AWD cars Post by xchox on 09/05/4 at 15:59:54 I never knew 323s :ocame in all wheel drive! HA i gotta get me a GTX for the winter! :)

Title: Re: Driving impressions of AWD cars Post by Tashko_Sarakinov on 09/28/4 at 11:47:47 I drive a '91 Talon that now has 311k on it ;D I replaced the original turbo @ 280k after running 14psi (stock is 11) since I bought it back in '97 w/107k.  There is nothing wrong with the reliability that you wouldn't expect on any 13 year old car. I plan to rally a '91 Talon (god, when will I get the $$$ saved to do it!?!). As Darryl said, parts are plentiful. I picked up an entire rear end for $150 because I wanted the LSD. Now I have struts, rotors, calipers, etc. to sell off! I've started doing Solo2 with it this year and it handles quite well on tarmac. I've done the winter rallies with it and it's always been a hoot to drive.  It's a car that you get attached to also, I don't think I'll ever get rid of it! If I wasn't soo Talon biased, the choice would be between a Talon and the 2.5. I could never go back to 2wd again either. I wouldn't go with a 323 just because parts will be harder to come by and cost more. Good luck!

Title: Re: Driving impressions of AWD cars Post by rallyguy on 09/28/4 at 13:57:59 The leaning now is towards a Celica All Trac Turbo. The 2nd Gen version - aka - ST185. Anyone have experience with this car?? Thanks, RK

Title: Re: Driving impressions of AWD cars Post by darryl on 09/28/4 at 14:36:43 Nice cars. Only one in the auto trader today.. 1990 TOYOTA CELICA GT-4 Turbo, AWD, only 2 female owners, low low kms, fully loaded, must sell. 160,000 km. $7,500.or best offer. Not very common. I know your not into them so I'm not going bring it up again........... Talon ;D

Title: Re: Driving impressions of AWD cars Post by rallyguy on 09/28/4 at 14:38:45 I have seen and driven that car - basket case. Just cause it's woman driven doesn't mean it ain't beaten. In this case it means "neglected AND beaten". Should I consider a talon?  :0 RK

Title: Re: Driving impressions of AWD cars Post by RallyJake on 09/28/4 at 16:20:04 They are great cars in the right hands. If you like  a project car then this is perfect. I'm constantly tinkering with mine.  Heck it hasen't seen a road in about a year now, but that's my fault. And I know what you mean by driving a 4 wheel drive.  It took me a while to get used to driving a 2 wd again. Just my 2 cents.

Title: Re: Driving impressions of AWD cars Post by rallyguy on 09/28/4 at 17:06:24 Wanna sell it? RK

Title: Re: Driving impressions of AWD cars Post by rallyguy on 11/17/4 at 22:51:45 Well the decision is made - got me a '93 All Trac Turbo last week. It's gonna need some work - but is well spec'd and seems fairly solid. Nice thing is the '93 came with a TORSEN rear end - so that's a plus. Thanks for everyone's input - got me thinking about lots of options and makes me comfortable in my decision to go with the Celica. If they were good enough for Carlos Sainz... See you at Pines! RK PS. If anyone's got any Celica or 3SGTE bits floating around that they want to dispose of - please let me know! RK

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