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MLRC Forum
https://www.mlrc.ca/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl General >> Rally >> 2005 Ontario Winter Rally https://www.mlrc.ca/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1105122835 Message started by AlanO on 01/07/5 at 13:33:55 |
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Title: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by AlanO on 01/07/5 at 13:33:55 ONTARIO WINTER RALLY NEWS - January 7/05 On-line registration for the 2005 OWR is up and running. Just go to http://www.mlrc.ca/owr/index.html and follow the cues. We are pleased to welcome our friends at Subaru Canada back as a sponsor of the event. In addition we are excited to announce a brand new sponsor - Clear Water Design Canoes & Kayaks. See details in the Supplementary Regulations of their great prizes. For your convenience secure on-line payment by credit card is featured again this year. Almost all entrants used it last year. When you complete the process, you will receive confirmation that payment was successfully processed. If you are paying by cheque, please send it immediately in the mail. Remember that your registration is not considered complete and you will not be assigned a Car # until we receive your payment. Those of you who wish to request a Top 20 start position must do so by contacting Ross Wood at ross.wood@sympatico.ca or by phoning 705-887-1130. To qualify you must have finished in the top 10 overall of a previous Ontario Winter Rally, any Yokohama/Subaru Winter Rally or by special consideration of the organizer. Requests will be accepted beginning Saturday, January 8th at noon until January 25th at midnight. Beyond the top 20, Car # will be set in order of receipt. Special exceptions may be made by the organizer. The odometer check will be posted on-line in about ten days. For further information about the event contact Ross Wood at owr.info@mlrc.ca. To communicate with Kym McIntosh, our Registrar send your e mail to owr.registrar@mlrc.ca Looking forward to seeing you on February 19. Ross Wood, 2005 OWR Coordinator |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by Craig_Hamm on 01/13/5 at 17:30:13 Road rallying is so diverse in this country. If only more Subaru's were entered. |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by AlanO on 01/13/5 at 19:15:42 At least Choiniere and ACP are breaking the trend. Sort of. For now. |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by nhibbert on 01/13/5 at 19:33:48 If only someone else would build a car as good as Subaru . . . |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by dtompsett on 01/13/5 at 21:26:08 *cough*.... Quattro... *cough*.... Ok, I'm not sure about the newer Audi's, with their new electronic awd, but I love how the Quattro II system in my car handles. I abuse the heck of of this thing, and it's got almost 300k km on it! Now, to finish repairing the rear differential lock... should be done this weekend. A Torsen center diff. is nice, but being able to lock the rear would be nice when it comes time to give someone a pull (or get unstuck ::) ). Quote:
With my Audi 90, people have taken their stock 130hp 10v (170hp in the 20v version), dropped in a turbo charged, intercooled, cammed 10v or 20v, and put 300-400hp at the wheels, with there yet to be a single drivetrain failure. Now the automatics.... thats another story (improperly spec'd seal from the factory becomes brittle over time and leaks tranny fluid into the front diff..... not a good thing). But I digress...... can't wait for this year's event.... gotta get my entry in soon.... there are already 33 entries on the list! |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by DaveP on 01/13/5 at 22:02:27 dtompsett wrote on 01/13/5 at 21:26:08:
Well, I owned a 1990 Legacy for 10 years, and put 440,000 Kms on it. I never rallied it, (I'm an old fart, and had quit by then,) but I put synthetic in the trans and rear diff at 6,000 Km, and it performed flawlessly ever since. The only problem was a crunching of the second gear synchros. And yes, I abused the hell out of that car. Best car I ever owned, and I bought my first car in 1968, (as soon as I turned 16). Dave |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by Ferdinand on 01/13/5 at 22:19:51 Quote:
It really is amazing, isn't it? :) Of the 33 entries so far, 21 are Subarus. Methinks this is clear evidence that the money Subaru invested in promoting rallying in Canada is paying off big dividends for the company. Come on folks. You know you don't actually HAVE to drive a Subaru to enter this event, eh. Go BMW! |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by Andrew_Harvey on 01/14/5 at 00:34:48 It does look like there are a lot of subarus entered. BUT, watch them all get whooped by an old volvo wagon. The volvo I am navigating will also eat up some subarus for sure! Andrew www.andrewharvey.ca |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by Craig_Hamm on 01/17/5 at 16:45:55 Well, looks like Louis C. is drivng the 85 Tercel that beat a zillion Subies in the 2001 Snowy Safari (when it was 600 km long). So, he'll kick lots of a** out there. Look out all you Petter wannabees. I wanna be Louis!! Also, the RWD MCO faction is a force to be reckoned with. |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by Craig_Hamm on 01/24/5 at 14:30:59 Now, what did I say in that last posting? FWD rocks! : ) Louis is the man! With Brian Maxwell as a navvie, that is an ace crew. MCO Intermediate crews did pretty good at SS I hear, too. Craig |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by Zweistein on 01/25/5 at 22:41:53 question: are passengers allowed for OWR? Pretty pretty please? :) I have a friend who's really interested in checking rallying out; she would sign waivers and her soul away no problems - and on the million-to-one chance that we place in the top half, we'd gladly accept any judgement if somehow that's considered unfair advantage or aid (after all, it's another person digging us out;-)). I'm not sure about the rules - I know passengers are allowed in RallyCrosses, but that's entirely different (even if more dangerous) event. They were also typically allowed in navexes as well (with the caveat that judgement is reserved should we place), so since it's the ORRC rules in OWR as well, maybe same applies? Thanks |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by Jeannie on 01/26/5 at 16:53:06 Given the fact that many navigators are seen sporting gravol patches, I can't even imagine having some poor soul in the back seat! :P I don't know what the rules are, but I'd think that would put her off rallying for life. Just my opinion, and nothin' more -- Jeannie |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by Zweistein on 01/26/5 at 17:14:30 well, on one hand, she wouldn't have to spend the night with her head burried in the notes & calculator - so I doubt nausea would be an issue in the same way as it is for navigators (you never hear of drivers complaining;)). Also, James, my navigator for the Snowy Safari, had NO problems whatsoever - with no gravol or ginger, and first time navigating. Pretty impressive, actually! :D (Ivan, my regular navigator, had quite a bit more trouble at Lanark) |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by AlanO on 01/26/5 at 17:15:22 No, passengers are not allowed. In future, you will be better off posing questions to the organizers directly - you'll get an official answer faster. |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by Zweistein on 01/27/5 at 08:21:45 oh great... now *I* have to break the news to her sad, puppy-face... :'( :P We'll just have to wait for RallyCrosses & regular navexes then :) |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by RyanHuber on 01/27/5 at 15:48:31 One thing to note Nik, it's actually in the rules that a competitive crew consists of a driver and navigator. Passengers are normally not allowed, however some organizers may allow it for rank novice teams. If it is thought that you may gain a competitive advantage having a third person in the car, you can in the very least expect to have your placing not count, or not be allowed to run with the extra person. Just warning you. Also, at Rallycrosses you may have a single passenger, I do not believe more than two people are allowed in a car at those events either, though I'd have to confirm that. |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by Zweistein on 01/27/5 at 19:52:19 Hi Ryan Yup, it's the rule 21.a of the RSO rulebook, defining the crew and leaving the passengers up to organizer's discretion (which is why I posed the question to the organizer themselves eventually, as Alan suggested as well:)). And as I noted in that e-mail, I'm generally more then willing to have our score disqualified because of the advantage (real or potential) - we're still at the point where it's more about the fun then placement. Heck, should we ever actually score well on the big drivexes, the knowledge alone is satisfactory enough:). But as expected, the organizer policy disallows it; just figured it wouldn't hurt (too much;)) asking :) |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by Jeannie on 01/28/5 at 13:35:35 Nikola, can you please contact me privately at rosetta@magma.ca --- I want to ask you something. thanks! Jeannie ;) |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by Nikola on 01/28/5 at 20:59:25 uh oh, now I'm in trouble! :o |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by Jeannie on 01/31/5 at 13:24:09 He isn't really . . . just sharing some private rally thoughts!! Jeannie ;) |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by AlanO on 01/31/5 at 19:09:18 We have reached the maximum number of entries for the 2005 Ontario Winter Rally. Online payment has been closed. We are creating a waiting list so you may still enter and pay by cheque. You will be notified if a space becomes available. |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by dtompsett on 02/09/5 at 00:35:56 10 days to go.... any news on the event? Road conditions? I know it's been fairly warm, and the backroads around home (60min from coehill.... norwood) have turned back into gravel. Well, we had 'snow speeds' last year... perhaps freezing rain speeds this year??? Or thick dense fog (well... at -3, it's not fog, it's a frozen mist). When I was home this weekend, both friday and saturday night saw thick mist. Hmmm... perhaps friday night calls for a little trip up to the cottage on Wollaston Lake.... check out South Wollaston Lake road. hehehe |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by dtompsett on 02/14/5 at 01:52:57 Well, i'm sure we've all seen and read the update from Ross made after the friday night green crew. I saw this post on saturday night..... just before I left on my little excursion to the cottage (which just happens to be on Wollaston Lake). My first warning..... there are deer out there! Slowing down just before I crested the hill at the end of county rd 46 where it meets South Wollaston Lake Rd., I had a deer come out of the trees, and down onto the road.... probably missed it by a few feet at the most cause I steered away. It's 1am, and that darn deer is probably thinking "I wonder what that noise is.... hey there are lights coming.... I should go see what they are" Grrrr..... darn deer! I only ended up playing on South Wollaston lake rd. and the lower 1/3 of Old hastings. South Wollaston is for the most part well plowed, and fairly wide (as wide as a tight road can be). The first bit of the south end has some nice frost heaves, and is a mixture of well packed snow, with some sections of gravel and sand, as well as the odd icey corner. Unless conditions change drastically, it will be easy going to keep the given CAS on the first section of road. After the entrance to the Gut Conservation area, or what I would write as ' keep left into CAUTION hard downhill right, dim lights past house', the road gets much tigher, and icy. There is still the occasional corner with gravel poking through, but don't expect to have 100% traction.... the ice is still there (as was demonstrated by a hard uphill left, which first saw grip slowing down, then a nice slide around the corner with the AWD). I definitely could not keep the same pace in the 2nd section as the 1st. The last section of road is much wider as it is more populated. Generally no heaves, and great traction. Then to the cottage.... quick drive down to the lake on Wollaston Lake rd in Coe Hill.... yup, cottage is still there. Taking Ridge Road running along the lake, the first 1.5km is very rough and full of pot holes.... must be related to that 'Caution, Trucks Turning' sign. Take it easy on that part, cause it's very rough. Getting away from the lake saw the explorer come out in me.... picking the first cottage road and heading down it.... plowed, but narrow.... just fun to explore my lake a little. Ended up on one road that was so narrowly plowed, I figured that if I had to open my doors, it would be a challenge. Also that feeling of 'hmmm... where do I turn around' .. Of course, if the plow got in, there must be a point where he turns around. Also climbed one very steep hill that i'm not even sure how a truck with a plow could get up..... crawling up it, I could feel the Torsen center diff doing it's job of transferring power before the wheels started to slip. If roads like that one are any indication of what Ross has in store for us, expect slippery conditions, cause those little roads were very slick when it came time to stop. Back on Ridge Road, down to Steinberg Lake road, and over to the lower 1/3 of old hastings. To begin, the road quickly narrows, and fitting 2 cars past eachother would simply be impossible. Hope no one gets stuck behind a slower competitor on that section, cause there's very few chances to pull over and pass. This lower section is also very slick. I don't recall ever seeing gravel or sand until I reached the paved cross-roads by hwy 62. Lots of ice, and lots of snow. I didn't get a distance, but be warned.... about 2 km or so after a bridge and it's 'Max XX Tonnes' sign, there is a slight downhill right into left.... that outside snowbank is very overplowed (overplowed into a little gully), and that piece of road is very slick.... had the car in a slide around the turn trying to prevent understeer into the snowbank. The drive back down was nice... at 3am, hwy 62 was completely empty, and I had earlier switched a set of the Bosch 225's to the pencil beams (I have been running 4 driving beams all year...just to see what the pencils were like). Those things are useless on a twisty road, kinda handy when the twisty road straightens out, but on a long paved straight, they are fantastic. Less scatter to the sides to distract you, and more light down at the end of the road to show you the corner coming up. As for conditions, of course... wouldn't you know it.... monday they are calling for ice pellets, and rain or snow.... so from sunday night to monday night, it is expected to get 10-15cm of rain, and close to 5mm of rain. So, looks like it will be nearly impossible to predict the conditions of the roads. Just try to keep it out of the banks.... cause they're very solid! |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by Ferdinand on 02/14/5 at 14:14:32 Quote:
Doug, you b*st*rd! :-* First off, other than my vague recollections from the last two SOWR events, I never know whether I'm on Old Hastings, Wollaston, or the 401. Okay, so maybe I'd recognise the 401. But I sure don't have any of your local knowledge of these diabolical roads. Nonetheless I certainly DO remember from previous years that there are about 10,000 different corners, ALL located "about 2 km or so" after a bridge, EACH of which could be described as "a slight downhill right into left". You're just trying to psyche us out before the event has even started. Well it's not gonna work! Not, I say. Curses! Okay, so maybe it's working just a little bit... :o |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by RyanHuber on 02/14/5 at 14:58:19 A little more of a teaser for those in the winter rally mood. This is a video I took this past weekend on Bear Cave Rd, the Hekkla/Bear Cave stage from Voyaguers a few years ago.http://www.rallysport.on.ca/images/Hekkla.wmv As always, right click, save as please. Roughly 24mb. Oh, and if it disappears then you'll know you've been using up all of RSO's bandwidth and I had to take it down rather than kill the site ;D |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by DaveC on 02/14/5 at 16:12:33 RyanHuber wrote on 02/14/5 at 14:58:19:
Warning 18+ rating for occasional graphic language and nude snowbanks. ;D Ryan, how quick would you have been going there. I am guessing 2nd and 3rd gear mostly and I think I heard you say on the one straight that you made it to 80 km/h. Looked mighty slippery. Ice under the snow? |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by RyanHuber on 02/14/5 at 16:31:10 Yeah, that one straight I hit 80, that was the peak the whole time. Most of it I was in second, occasionally up to third. With no sweep, etc, I didn't want to go any faster! REALLY slippery, glare ice under about 1-2" of snow, no sanding on the ice. That one "moment" was pure understeer, quick grab of the handbrake and away we go! :D |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by dtompsett on 02/14/5 at 19:13:52 Well Ferdinand.... I will occasionally get confused about what roads i'm as well. I normally remember old hastings, because it's usually followed by a transit down 62, or the top is accessed by 620. As for south wollaston, I always know that one, cause they always go south to north on that road (atleast the 2 events i've driven in)... and that means you have to do a transit down the 504.... which is a nice little chunk of road..... one great little twisty section.... this is the road I normally take to the cottage, and in the middle of the summer with the windows down and the tires humming, that little twisty spot is a favourite of mine. |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by dtompsett on 02/17/5 at 15:37:10 2 Days to the event. Just thought I would offer this to anyone.... my dad's house is approx. 80km from coe-hill, just outside Norwood off Hwy 7 (hwy 7 to 46, 46 north to 504, 504 to 620, and 620 to rally hq). If anyone needs to do any last minute mounting of lights etc. in the garage, i'm sure he won't mind. I will be sticking around the house until roughly 6:00-6:30.... getting the car loaded up, and possibly mounting the camera. If anyone has any issues on the way up that they need to check out or fix (electrical issues, mechanical issues, etc), give me a call on my cell.. (705) 730-4465, and I might be able to help out. I've also got the 2m mobile radio in the car... haven't figured out what freq. i'm gonna listen to on the way up, but if anyone's up for a chat, let me know ahead of time... i'll be sure to listen for ya. Perhaps the 145.450 repeater? (i'm assuming its running in the winter). Doug T. |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by Ferdinand on 02/20/5 at 23:21:31 Some of our in-car video clips from last night's SOWR: 05-SOWR-Floor-it (3.75MB) 05-SOWR-72-OMG (6.5MB) 05-SOWR-71 (8MB) |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by RyanHuber on 02/20/5 at 23:47:46 Cool vids Ferd, I'll have some stuff up shortly as well, once I've got some time to work on it. |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by fuzzy on 02/21/5 at 15:49:03 Ferdinand wrote on 02/20/5 at 23:21:31:
Can we get these in non-streaming format? |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by ACP on 02/21/5 at 16:47:01 Congratulations to Ross, the MLRC, all the workers, and all the competitors on an excellent event. We enjoyed ourselves tremendously. I can tell you that a couple of sections were real work on my side of the car. And keep in mind that Marc and I call a performance stage win a "good day at the office." Congrats to Jud and Doug on the win. Hope you're skeered for next year. Also to John and Alan for an absurdly good intermediate performance. And Keith and Jen for running clean for so long. And Karl too. Jeez - it's getting competitive out there. Like every year I think special awards should go to Louis Carbardos/Brian Maxwell, and Bo (and little Bo) Skowronnek for doing impossible things in 2WD cars. Obviously cases of "driven by WHO's inside." Thanks to Sube and ClearWater for the support. ACP |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by brynepp on 02/21/5 at 17:39:54 [quote author=Ferdinand link=board=news;num=1105122835;start=15#29 date=02/20/05 at 23:21:31]Some of our in-car video clips from last night's SOWR: Great vids! Now my friends will understand Lower Old Hastings;D Bryn |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by Ferdinand on 02/21/5 at 18:38:39 Quote:
If anybody out there is willing to host them for me, that'd be great. That's the only drawback to using that free upload site. They insist on streaming the files so you have lots of time to see their advertising. When I get a bit more time I'll go through my tapes again and make some better clips to post. |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by dtompsett on 02/21/5 at 18:59:30 I will have some video up in a few days which can be downloaded (for all those who don't like streaming). I will post links when they are up. |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by RyanHuber on 02/21/5 at 22:52:32 As posted to the Rally-Ontario list for those who want to save files: go to the page, and then go to the view menu and select "Source" which will bring up all the html code for the page. Browse through that and eventually you'll find the URL for the raw .wmv file, copy that, and then paste it into Windows Media's "Open URL" window, and save the file once it's downloaded. |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by Nikola on 02/21/5 at 23:26:43 Or -- stream them (watch it in browser), then open your internet cache on the hard drive and just copy from there. A bit easier as you can just move all the videos at once. Might want to sort by size and simply move the longest videos. If you have a lot of junk, delete cache before streaming. To wit: Tools -> Internet Options -> General -> (Temporary Internet Files) Settings -> View Files After streaming, They'll be named something like 5021515658[1].wmv or c-5021515658.wmv etc |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by RyanHuber on 02/22/5 at 01:09:20 My first video is here: http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=wollaston2 |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by Ferdinand on 02/22/5 at 14:07:41 Cool! I like seeing other people's in-car video. :o I want to know what I'm doing wrong and it really helps to study what other people are doing. I would really love to see some in-car from Jud or Louis!! We made a few dumb mistakes along the way. I kissed a few too many snowbanks and Christoph called some questionable route instructions. At one point he counted us down to a Caution sharp right over crest, so we had to slow right down for that, except there was nothing but left turns after every crest for almost a full kilometre after that. Turns out I'd been using a wee bit too much wheelspin and our odo was way off. People seeing our videos often comment on how calm and relaxed Christoph seems. Well he was way too relaxed this time. I had to keep elbowing him because he was falling asleep on me! Then he told me to turn right when we were not yet halfway up the length of lower Old Hastings. Are you sure about that? This doesn't feel right to me. Check that distance again, eh. Sh*t. Go back, go back! Up to that point, Martin and Ken had been running right behind us in the order with their Nissan 240. After our off-route incident they were three cars ahead of us. But they were always faster than us anyway in the tricky stuff and, if not for some minor stuffage just before the last checkpoint, they would surely have finished 2nd in Intermediate (behind the uncatchable John V/Alan O!!). So I'm thinking we might need to make some upgrades for next year. Maybe we need to get us one a dem newfangled four-wheel-drive thingys. Or maybe we just need to order up and install some larger cojones... |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by Ferdinand on 02/22/5 at 14:16:18 Quote:
It is possible to directly link to the source file as decribed by Ryan, however I prefer you use Nikola's suggestion of allowing the files to stream then copying them from your cache. The Terms of Use for Putfile.com prohibit directly linking to the source files. They say the files will be dumped if too much bandwidth is consumed by direct linking. |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by Nikola on 02/22/5 at 14:28:40 Sounds like navigators were relaxing & falling asleep left and right! I'm bringing coffee, Red Bull, and maybe a cattle prod or two with me next time ;D ---- I've been trying to cut my 4 hours of videos to reasonably interesting parts, but can't seem to find the right, easy to use, fast software... I'm on my 6th suggested program right now - half of them don't want to open my AVI files, other half is too cumbersome and slow. I'll post them up eventually though :) |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by RyanHuber on 02/22/5 at 21:14:09 I've got another clip up, from Old Hastings southbound at the start of Leg C. http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=hastings2 And the south end of Hastings, through the tight bit: http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=southhastings |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by Nikola on 02/23/5 at 02:44:55 our first rough clip (8MB WMV) It'll be reworked once I have the time to actually look through it all for the "good bits" :) (incidentally, I thought it looks a bit fast because of the low placement of camera; but all my non-rally friends are non-pulsed at how 'slow' we're going ::) ) |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by luv2drift on 02/23/5 at 09:13:44 Nice clip Nikola. Wow, what beautiful roads! ;D |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by Dave Cady on 02/23/5 at 09:30:07 Nice clips Ryan. Your navvy seems to like it when you get sideways. I loved the laughter. Dave |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by DaveC on 02/23/5 at 11:15:04 The funny part is that Ryan's navvie is his mom! My mom never seems to laugh when I get the car sideways, with her in it ??? |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by RyanHuber on 02/23/5 at 11:25:39 Gotta remember, she used to co-drive performance rallies and drive road rallies back in the late 70s/early 80s. The quote I always get, from Perce Neige, Taisto asking "You got shovel?" ;D |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by knaztech on 02/23/5 at 13:59:06 I apologize for a hijack if it happens, but... Here’s a question to everyone who has recorded and watched his or her in-car footage afterwards: Does it appear to you that you were going faster on the road than it appears in the video? Yes, no? Why? I’ve watched almost all the videos posted in this topic and it seems like I was driving a bit faster than that when we were on the same roads! I think it was just that I was more scared at the time and that things seem faster when you are scared (or are they supposed to appear slower?). This is a serious question and I do not intend to offend anyone or their driving skills. Just to clarify, I have never taped myself in a stage and, perhaps, that’s why I’m asking this question here. Thoughts? By the way, Alan or John, any idea when the final results will be posted on-line? Ken. |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by Nikola on 02/23/5 at 14:23:39 I've noticed it many times before - videos seem significantly slower (just makes you appreciate those WRC drivers more;)). One aspect is what you mention - you're much more aware of the dangers when you're actually in the car, can feel the loss of grip, g-forces, and have no idea what's behind the next curve. Also, only the most drastic of slides are at all visible in the videos - the 'minor' slides you experience with the butt-dyno all the time are not at all apparent in the camera. (I wasn't exactly among the fastest on the rallycrosses this summer, but I definitelly slid a lot on the slalom portion - totally invisible on the footage). The rest is probably some function of angle & location of camera. The higher it is, the slower it appears (with my bumper camera, the daytime shots actually appear a bit faster then I remember them, but more approximate the feel of speed). The field of vision of the camera (i.e. how wide/narrow angle it has by default) and zoom also play part. Bottom line... it's *dam* hard to impress your friends with the in-car footage! ::) --- Final results are available, they're just not linked yet: http://www.mlrc.ca/road/owr05results.html Cheerios :) |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by dtompsett on 02/23/5 at 15:28:56 hehehe.... butt dyno... I also agree, that in-car shots tend to look slow.... definitely need to throw a wide-angle lense in there to pick up more of the car and the road. Nikola, what are you using for a camera? I'm assuming you have a lipstick-style camera mounted to the front bumper. |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by nhibbert on 02/23/5 at 15:40:57 I think a wider angle lens may help with the impression of speed. Most camera's have a fairly narrow angle lens, so you get clearer long distance shots, but you loose the perhipherial vision areas, which is what you use to gauge motion. You could also point the camera to one side slightly so you see more of the bank speeding past. Nik's video gives you more of an impression of speed because the camera is so close to the ground you see the road zipping past. I think Nik's video was the most entertaining so far because he got to see all the carnage. |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by Ferdinand on 02/23/5 at 15:41:47 Quote:
Hey Ken, congrats on your excellent finish with the new car! Yes, the video always looks way slower. I look forward to seeing the video of a particular bit that I remembered as being very hairy, then it looks dead boring on the video. I believe it's because while driving your eyes pick up more of the peripheral stuff and you know the trees are whipping past quite quickly, whereas on the video the forward view is more restricted. The stuff in the distance just doesn't seem to be coming at you quite as quickly. Nikola's low-mounted bumper cam picks up more of the road surface passing by quickly under the nose of the car. That gives a much better impression of the speed, but from the low angle you lose some of the view down the road. I like the inside view from our car because it shows what we're doing in the car and how much steering correction is involved. Plus you can actually watch the speedometer. It's marked in 20 km/h increments where straight up is 120km/h. So you can see we're typically going somewhere between 60 to 80 km/h max. But with the camera located so far back in the cabin, the narrow view of the road out the front windshield still looks slow. I'm starting to think that's probably because we actually were slow too much of the time. :-[ Ryan's videos have that nifty wide screen format. I like that effect too. Comparing all the videos I can see now that we really will need to buy some new tires for next year. We look fairly similar in the corners, but we just don't hook up nearly as nice as Ryan's car when he gets on the throttle coming out of corners. Wow. His car actually accelerates on the straights. I'm jealous. Not to mention that his mom is way cooler than my mom. |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by RyanHuber on 02/23/5 at 15:55:33 LOL ;D Yeah, I do intend to get a bullet cam before next winter, so I can do the dual view thing. Ferd, your interior cam is great because it shows how much you're working the wheel, etc, which may often disagree with what it looks like out the front. I know many times where I had a whole bunch of lock and pretty decent slides, and the car looks straight in the vid. BTW, Ferd, AWD is a beautiful thing. That combined with my decent torque, I was in third for probably 90% of the time in the tight stuff, only going to second on the really tight corners. |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by BTDT on 02/23/5 at 15:59:08 Nice to know that someone thinks I'm cool. As a new member of MLRC I can now "legally" get on this board. I know that Ryan is going "oh crap she got on" right now but that's too bad |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by RyanHuber on 02/23/5 at 16:03:52 Oh crap, she got on :o |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by BTDT on 02/23/5 at 16:07:32 Nice talk! I don't even get a "welcome newbie" message? :'( |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by nhibbert on 02/23/5 at 16:24:24 Welcome! And good navigating. 8) |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by Nikola on 02/23/5 at 17:31:24 >>Nikola, what are you using for a camera? I'm assuming you have a lipstick-style camera mounted to the front bumper. Nope, I'm actually extremely curious as to what people are using usually, as I've gone through my own trial&error process, starting with a wireless camera (prolonged fiasco lasting many weeks & events with no footage), through camcorders and digital cameras, until 4 hours before taking off for the rally on Saturday, in sheer desperation I bought a logitech WebCam from Staples. Worked perfectly! :> Almost all checkpoints have asked us what the heck were the massive amounts of green duct tape doing running the length of my black car :) - it was to hold the USB cable going from the "bumper cam" to the laptop in the back seat :> as usual though, still plenty of software glitches to iron out, which is why we only have one third of the footage we planned to get. >>As a new member of MLRC I can now "legally" get on this board. whopsie! Still haven't sent those membership forms in myself! :( And a definite warm welcome:). Though, it seems you can hardly pass yourself off as a newbie... ;) >>he got to see all the carnage yup... at one point, we were actually running behind the sweep truck... an extremelly distressing feeling, considering how ecstatic I was to see them on snowy safari :P. We were honking our horn and blinking our lights, but they must've adopted the "looking back is for sissies" attitude;) and on one stretch, just before we (mercifully) arrived at the checkpoint, they were gunning it faster in the jeep then we would've otherwise gone in the sedan - it was 'fun' just keeping up with them!:) (... it would've been rather ironic if we had an off trying to catch the sweep truck!) >>we just don't hook up nearly as nice as Ryan's car when he gets on the throttle coming out of corners You both got an awesome growl to your engines though :> |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by Ferdinand on 02/23/5 at 17:49:22 Quote:
Unfortunately that's NOT my engine making the awesome growl. It's a bearing gone bad in the gearbox. Rather worrisome that noise... |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by Nikola on 02/23/5 at 18:01:27 oooh ouchie :( |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by knaztech on 02/24/5 at 08:57:32 Thanks, everyone, for your input. It was enlightning (no pun intended)! I got a chance to see Ryan's footage on a TV last night (straight from his camera). Wow! It looks like nothing on-line. It was also nice to see some moments that he's (wisely) edited out. I think I'm going to have to buy a camera now! Ken. |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by Ferdinand on 02/24/5 at 14:24:14 Here's another video for you. This was near the end when it was getting really icy, so there's lots of flailing arms and flying elbow action. Putfile.com only allows clips less than 10MB, so I had to cut this one into two parts. Caution - may be icy - Part 1 (wmv 9.2MB) Caution - may be icy - Part 2 (wmv 9.4MB) |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by tbartman on 02/24/5 at 19:29:51 Hi all, Also a newbie to this forum. I have been checking out the videos that have been posted, and hopefully if I get the chance to compete again I will have to hook up a camera. This was my first time driving in a rally (other than a mini more than 10 years ago) and holy smoke was that a blast. ;D Having done this rally from the navigators side many times, I never had an appreciation for the driving necessary. Congrats to all the competitors and to all the workers. Tom Bartman |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by Craig_Hamm on 02/24/5 at 22:08:19 [quote author=Nikola whopsie! Still haven't sent those membership forms in myself! :( [/quote] Hmm, yes. I remember requiring ALL Lanark Highland Winter Rally entrants to be an affiliated member, and you assured me you were, or were very soon to be. So against my own rules I let you run, but that was two years ago. I see you have never joined a club. I still feel duped. Nikola, please support the grassroots clubs (like MLRC) with a membership that offer you these great events in a great sport! Back to the technical... I haven't played with on board cameras, but IN the car I think a more narrow view might make it look faster. This is because in a wide view IN the car, there is a lot of image that is stationary. Only a small part of the visual area is in motion. OUTSIDE the car, like a low bumper cam, wider will probably make it look faster for the reasons Ferd mentioned. It's all about perception. At the MCO RG meeting we just watched on-board from Clarke/Gamblin, finished a close 2nd in Modern at Targa. VERY fast car/driver. Good interior wide shots, no way did it ever look as fast as they were actually going (200+ sometimes). Very deceptive. |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by Nikola on 02/24/5 at 23:17:17 edit: post removed into private e-mail, where this clearly belongs. |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by Nikola on 02/24/5 at 23:19:36 edit: nothing to see here, carry on :) |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by luv2drift on 02/25/5 at 08:57:53 Wasn't your handle Zweltstein or something just a little while ago ? |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by Nikola on 02/25/5 at 09:13:05 yup, it got really messy as I had different handles on different forums, so I asked admins to help me change them all to my first name... this way when we meet, there's less confusion (and people don't try to pronounce Zweistein and call me that ;)). ... 'course, the best laid plans of mice and men... it might have become more confusing for the first little while ::) edit: btw Craig and I cleared the mistaken identity issue over e-mail... 'tis all cool now :) |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by Craig_Hamm on 02/25/5 at 21:36:15 Yes, I jumped too fast on this one, I screwed up. darn those 5 hour flights and black coffee. The original sentiment still holds, I don't like being duped as an organiser, but the ID was wrong. Nikola and I are best buds again, and there is free beer in his future. Sorry mate (cough). |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by bline on 02/25/5 at 23:22:07 Just wanted to thank all of you for the videos. They help when you're explaining the rally to someone unfamiliar with our sport. BTW, OWR has the best roads I've ever run in a TSD rally and it was a blast. I'm afraid it will make the tougher rallies here in Michigan seem like driving down the freeway at 10mph! It was weird running a TSD where I was over 30 seconds behind at times with nothing but the road slowing me that much! In case you're wondering I was in the Jeep Cherokee. Can't wait until next years event. |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by Craig_Hamm on 02/26/5 at 01:09:56 Gol darnit, I have yet to run in the OWR, but working CP's the roads are insanely incredible for sure. Not only are the roads great, but if Ross W. has a hand in a rally, it is impeccably organised. I took a lot of cues from Ross, learning tons from simply working "his" events. For other great roads I also recommend any rally in the Quebec Laurentians, and of course (shameless plug) in the Lanark Highlands. Both the Bancroft area (OWR and Tall Pines) and the Lanark Highlands roads were used on the 74 Rideau Lakes Rally ("WRC" in 1974). Thankfully not all of Ontario is flat. The roads in the Laurentians are darn tootin scary incredible, lots of elevation, and even with a max speed of 70 kph, that's a max CAS of 63, and that is real tough up there. "1000 Snowbanks" runs tomorrow night. : ) and the Montreal club is considering running the long standing Rallye des Neiges March 12. |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by Nikola on 02/26/5 at 01:26:02 It is tough explaining the excitement of our sport to others - saying "Gee Whiz, the CAS was 62kph on that section!!!", everbody's face goes blank "oh... ok". Going average of 60 just doesn't sound very interesting;) And of course, the videos sometime make it seem that we're taking a grocery drive, which combined with the insane expectations of Solberg & Loeb style all-out racing, unfailingly bring dissapointment to the listeners... Ah well... we know we're having a good (if occasionally dramatic) time :D |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by Ferdinand on 02/26/5 at 09:31:20 Quote:
A Cherokee would never be my first choice of vehicle for this type of rally. But you guys did REALLY well! We'll certainly be watching out for you next year. |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by Nikola on 02/26/5 at 19:37:58 no worries... we'll be bringing up the rear again, with the hook at the ready! ;D |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by DeanC on 02/27/5 at 15:05:59 Big thanks to everyone involved. What fun! Can't wait for next year! We had lots of fun, flirted with a few snowbanks, but no long term relationships! I nearly didn't make the turn after Iron Bridge, because I was too busy going "Holy crap, I just drove the Iron Bridge!" Now I defenitely have to buy a race car! |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by Nikola on 02/27/5 at 18:35:01 >>because I was too busy going "Holy crap, I just drove the Iron Bridge!" heh, that's funny; I get so mesmerized by the winter driving, I generally haven't a clue where the heck I am (which only becomes a problem when my navigator joins me in sweet, sweet ignorance;)). I drove through a few roads volunteering at Tall pines this fall, but the two events occupy two entirely different areas of my brain/memory :P Chances are good that I drove over Iron Bridge as well;), but have no particular recollection of it.... :( |
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Title: Re: 2005 Ontario Winter Rally Post by dtompsett on 02/27/5 at 23:34:47 96XJ wrote on 02/26/5 at 19:30:11:
It's a shame to hear that... I felt that way last year, after stopping to help someone when I was a minute ahead... only to become a minute behind, and find a checkpoint around the next corner. This year, we went off towards the end of leg A.... understeered up onto a snowbank. A subaru wagon who had DNF'd himself (running on his spare tires) pulled us out.... we only lost 9 minutes in the snowbank, and had made up 2 of those by the next checkpoint. We had enough difficulty getting grip in the corners that I realized I wasn't going to zero any controls on some of the legs.... so I didn't mind stopping to help. On leg B, we came into an uphill left a little quick, and I decided to go straight..... and down a little laneway (someone else had already done the same thing).... quickly back out, drive 10m up the hill, and hook onto the guy who was running ahead of us. Pull him out. Take off... few turns later we come across Karl S. in his STi.... pull past him, and give him a few hard yanks to pull him out. By the time we had come by, he had lost 29 minutes in that snowbank. I didn't mind losing a few minutes yanking on him if it meant getting him back into the rally. I think if I was running better tires, and had been able to push more, I would have been on the speeds a little more.... but running a worn set of winter tires basically leaves you snow grip, but poor ice grip. With the better tires, if I was zeroing a road, I may not stop to help (unless it looks like a serious situation)... but I had accepted the fact that I was just out to have fun. Hehehe.... I love that I cottage in coe hill.... the run down the 620 to 504 is like 2nd nature to me.... the little twisty bit on the 504 before it meets 46 is great... hard uphill left into crest, into downhill sweeps left to right, 50, into hard left, caution lake beyond road (no gaurd rail!!!), into 3+ right, into 3 left into long 3 right opens and tightens (great camber... in summer the car hugs this turn, in the winter you can get into a nice little slide and still feel confident), into 5 uphill left *caution drop on right*..... atleast... thats how i'd describe it. 8) Glad you could make it up from Michigan.... sounds like the OWR is popular with several American teams. Now, if only ross would turn it into a crazy event like was described to us at the drivers meeting... the late 70's OWR, where it ran up towards sudbury and back.... you'd never see the same road twice! |
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