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Message started by 2ndgengsx on 08/11/6 at 23:24:10

Title: Which car to use?
Post by 2ndgengsx on 08/11/6 at 23:24:10

I am really interested in running in the rallycross events for the 2007 season. I have two cars. One is a volkswagon golf 1990 gti and the other is a nissan 200sx. The golf is 5 speed and the 200sx is auto.The 200sx is also not the SE-R model. My question is which car would be the better platform to use? I would also like to know what are some modifications that are common and good ideas for rallycross cars?
Thanks for everyones help in advanced.

Title: Re: Which car to use?
Post by RyanHuber on 08/11/6 at 23:52:30

My personal preference would be for the golf. Those GTis are nice and light, nimble, and pretty darn quick. The 200sx, is that rear drive? There's little competition in the rear drive class, which I would consider to be a downside but others may consider a bonus.

Things to mod, well, I'd consider strongly making up a skidplate. Lots of golf experience with that out there I'm sure. Maybe some firmer suspension, Bilsteins or whatever, but you should be fine on stock stuff. Others will surely chime in on Golf stuff, not really my area.

Title: Re: Which car to use?
Post by 2ndgengsx on 08/13/6 at 21:27:34

Thank you for your input. I was aready leaning towards the golf so thanks for pointing out some positive aspects of the car. The 200sx is front wheel drive so i dont know if that changes anything? Thanks again and hope to be out next year racing. Also is there a site or links to golf rally parts of? Or are alot of rally parts custom made for each car? Im sorta new to rally so sorry if that seems to be a stupid question.

Title: Re: Which car to use?
Post by AlanO on 08/13/6 at 21:59:16

Go with the Golf. Out of the two cars you've mentioned, it's definitely the better platform. Lots of guys have been running Golfs in Canada so there is lots of knowledge out there.

Try Jon Nichols at www.jonnichols.com or Warren Haywood at (819) 682-4955. Both have extensive experience preparing Volkswagens for rally.

Title: Re: Which car to use?
Post by SWITCH on 08/15/6 at 14:46:22

You may also want to talk with Dan from Four Star Motorsports (the series sponsor). They have lots of experience with Golfs and rally-x preperation.

Title: Re: Which car to use?
Post by ktibi79 on 08/15/6 at 18:23:50

Hi!

I have lot of cool stuff for the old 2.0 16V GTI.
Brembo brakes,ported polished head,oversized valves(natrium filled),rally cams(275/265) shrick cast aluminum oilpan, Meyer oilpump,titanium valve retainers and springs, valveguides,performance steamseals,
lightweight lifters(about half of stockone!!!) Techtonics lightened ,balanced crankshaft with titanium timing gear,
lightened flywheel, Neuspeed ECU, JE pistons, radiator with fans,(stock) ,etc,all stock parts are cleaned painted, :o
I just sold my coilovers :-/
I olso have two racing seats for sale,one Corbeau and one Precision Performance,
All items has to go! Save some money and take it oll for super cheap price. Ill give you a bunch of spares for free,even a transmission which was just rebuilted,shafts too,it is in my way. :)

Title: Re: Which car to use?
Post by 2ndgengsx on 08/20/6 at 23:04:19

Thank you everybody for all there imput again. Ktibi79 thanks for your help and i will most likely speak to you soon regarding parts you have.

Title: Re: Which car to use?
Post by robin on 08/21/6 at 08:08:18

If the 200SX *was* an SER, it might be worth considering as it would have the excellent SR20 motor, which has been very well developed in both F2 rally form and Super Touring. Tons of parts available. An easy & cheap swap/upgrade would be the SR20VE. OEM large brakes availbale and cheap. Also pretty sure it's lighter than a Golf.

Both HotBits and DMS suspension are available - but it's suspension, again, where the B14 chassis might not be ideal since the rear has limited travel and is no longer independent like the B13 was.

Robin

Title: Re: Which car to use?
Post by 2ndgengsx on 08/21/6 at 13:22:56

Those are great points you made robin. Thank you for your help. I looked into coil overs for the golf. Now my question is do I really need them for the car seeing as I will be a first time competitor?

Title: Re: Which car to use?
Post by robin on 08/21/6 at 15:43:55

2ndgengsx wrote on 08/21/6 at 13:22:56:

No. You could conceivably run on stock suspension - but you might consider Bilsteins. I'd run a skid plate. The idea is keeping the car in one piece long enough for you to develop experience.

Search aroound on the Special Stage forums as well - there's tons of info on everything.

Robin

Title: Re: Which car to use?
Post by 2ndgengsx on 08/21/6 at 22:34:50

I have recently been looking into things such as skid plates and shocks/coilovers. Now i found a skid plate for the A2 golfs, the place wanted about $300 not sure if it was US or CDN and that doesnt include shipping. I was thinking it would be cheaper to fabricate up a custom one on my own would it not? How difficult would it be to do such a project?

Title: Re: Which car to use?
Post by robin on 08/22/6 at 07:25:49

Jack up the car and have a look - see what you want to cover and look for ways to mount the plate - then ask around, search on Special Stage etc. to figure out the best way to do it. Go buy some 6061-T6 aluminum, sketch out your design, take it to a machine shop with a shear and a brake and have it cut & bent to your design. Fabricate your mounts, drill the holes, buy some fasteners.

Or - for rallycross, maybe you just want to use UHMW - the stuff they make cutting boards out of - maybe 1/2" thick - you can heat it to bend it - light and easy to work with. Still have to figure out a way to mount it.

Robin

Title: Re: Which car to use?
Post by Anthony_T on 08/22/6 at 09:33:37

When I used my street cars for rally cross I always made something up that was super simple. I would not call it a skid plate because I doubt I'd be skidding on it but...

I would make it out of some 16 gauge steel or aluminum. Usually just enough either to keep rocks out of the engine compartment or just enough to ensure that the oil pan did not catch on anything. At times I have pushed hard at these events - I certanly have not tiptoed through the course like did at galway - but I have never had a problem with any of the three or four different cars I've used.

I would always try and find existing holes to use for mounting. The year before last I found an area where I could weld a bolt somewhere to fasten the plate. Last year I got superlazy (as I was having to make something new every year) I took two 1.5foot pieces of 16 gauge steel and used self taping screws to attach it to the rad suppport. I bent it in such a way as it would stay pressed against the oil pan. Really, it just covered that void in order to ensure nothing caught.

Sorry - a long rambling answer.
The point is you can keep it simple. I've run this event four years and I've always driven home (4 hours to North Bay even). Until this year I never had a proper skid plate.

Good luck, don't wait until next year
Anthony

Title: Re: Which car to use?
Post by 2ndgengsx on 08/22/6 at 10:10:07

Thanks alot again Robin you are very helpful. And thank you Anthony for the explination on how to keep it simple. Im going to check the car today and start to plan it out. Thanks alot again to everyone that has helped me with all my questions.
Now when I go to get the plate made should it be made with aluminum or steel and what size?

Title: Re: Which car to use?
Post by 2ndgengsx on 08/23/6 at 00:14:59

I was reading on the special stage forum and came across a few things that i have questions about. Im new to both rally and volkswagens so bare with me.
"I would also look for a CIS-E or Digifant because they are pretty easily tunable."
Im not sure what he is exactly saying I think its something about possibly the ECU but can someone clarify this?
"As for cheap tweeks, I would get a Pelolock. The diff as originally supplied has a very slight preload provided by a couple washers that give a very low level limited slip. These are usually worn and even when new do nothing to reduce slip. The Pelolock replaces them with a higher preloaded set and a couple nice flange seals to increase the breakaway torque from near zero to about 85 (claimed) pounds. It aint realy limited slip but costs about 1/10 a real LSD and doesnt require tearing the tranny down to put in."
What is Pelolock? Has anyone done or heard about this being done?
"If you want to run rallycross, buy a $300 Golf, block the vac. line to the brake booster, and get some snow tires. "
Is blocking the vacuum line really a good idea?

The first two quotes were posted by Walter Clark , who seems to be quite knowledgable about Golfs, and the third was posted by Lurch. All posts are in the Getting Started Thread, in Car Construction if you need further information.

If anyone has any answers to my questions please feel free to help me out. Thanks in advanced.

*I found what Pololock is. Heres sites if anyone is interested http://www.thescirocco.com/peloquin.html and http://peloquins.com/installation_80.html, Im still interested if anyone uses these.*

Title: Re: Which car to use?
Post by RyanHuber on 08/23/6 at 00:24:13

I know Warren Haywood, who used to performance rally a golf, had a large juice can under the hood with vacuum lines going into it and then into the brake booster. The theory was that it was a vacuum reserve. The problem is, if you're at wide open throttle the engine makes basically no vacuum, so you get no brake boost past the first press of the pedal. This "tank" he made had a few more presses in reserve. Reason being that when left foot braking the brake pedal would be very inconsistent, sometimes nice and boosted and other times rock hard with no assist. The alternative is what Lurch suggested, take the line off entirely and just get used to a hard brake pedal. Many subaru rallycars have the brake booster removed as well because a turbo car won't make vacuum obviously when it's in boost.

As for the other questions, the CIS-E and digifant are afaik forms of fuel injection.

Title: Re: Which car to use?
Post by suprf1y on 08/23/6 at 12:52:03

Quote:

maybe you just want to use UHMW

UHMW means ultra high molecular weight, and refers to polyethylene.
A good choice, but any kind of polyetheline should be fine, and possibly alot cheaper.

Title: Re: Which car to use?
Post by 2ndgengsx on 08/23/6 at 14:54:24

Suprf1y are you suggesting that instead of making a skip plate from steel or aluminium to use UHMW? Will it serve the same protection as a metal skid plate? Where can i find UHMW sheets?
Ryan does either way you talked about seem reasonable to do or benifit enough to do? Could some one also draw a diagram of the vacuum system with the juice bottle?

Title: Re: Which car to use?
Post by DaveC on 08/23/6 at 15:43:28

RyanHuber wrote on 08/23/6 at 00:24:13:

As for the other questions, the CIS-E and digifant are afaik forms of fuel injection.

Ryan is right CIS-E and Digifant are fuel injection sytems that were used in late 80's-early 90's Golfs. CIS-E stands for Constant flow Injection System - Electronic, I believe. They are both Bosch systems.

If this is your first season of RallyX, I don't think you need to worry about playing with the fuel injection. Get a skidplate and a helmet and get your butt in the car. You will find many people that will tell you that Driver experience will make more difference than a few horsepower from playing around with the fuel injectors.

Except for Ryan and his new drivetrain that he was showing everybody. (You got that in there yet Ryan?)

Title: Re: Which car to use?
Post by 2ndgengsx on 08/23/6 at 15:54:25

Ya, i wasnt to worried the fuel, it was more of a question of what it all meant. Thanks for clarifying.

Title: Re: Which car to use?
Post by suprf1y on 08/23/6 at 17:11:55

Quote:

Suprf1y are you suggesting that instead of making a skip plate from steel or aluminium to use UHMW?

No, not really, the other guy did. I was just trying to save you a bit of money if you went plastic shopping.
There are lots of plastics suppliers that will sell small peices, but if you could get something used, that would be better (cheaper)

Title: Re: Which car to use?
Post by RyanHuber on 08/23/6 at 17:37:40

Yep, motor swap is done, spent yesterday tuning it. All is well, looking forward to it's debut this weekend! ;D

Title: Re: Which car to use?
Post by Craig_Hamm on 08/24/6 at 22:35:56

FWIW, and not even a rally-X competitor, but have done/seen enough in the grassroots...I'm with DaveC on this. Unless you have some undiscovered god-given talent, in your first year your "stage" times will be down more to technique and less on squeezing out that other 3 hp in any one of 6 systems under the hood. Case in point, Louis Cabardos at any winter rally in a "well used" Tercel, light car, great technique, smooth, and no special parts. I'm sure that there are lots of people out there that could beat me silly in my own car, so, it's not all about the car until you've reached it's own limit. Find your limit first, then worry about all that silly $$$ stuff. Get a helmet, a simple skid plate, tight seat belts, and some snow (or used rally) tires. Go have fun before it's all about the money.

My 6061 plate for a MkII cost ~ $200 custom fab, I think it's 3/16". It takes a lot of abuse and I've never worried about the underside since. Plastic stuff will behave differently from metal. There are even some that say 6061 is too hard, that you want a softer metal so that it bends a bit when you really hit it to absorb more energy.