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MLRC Forum
https://www.mlrc.ca/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl General >> Rally >> RSO & BILL C19 - STREET RACING https://www.mlrc.ca/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1160760148 Message started by rosswood on 10/13/6 at 12:22:27 |
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Title: RSO & BILL C19 - STREET RACING Post by rosswood on 10/13/6 at 12:22:27 RallySport Ontario and BILL C19 (Street Racing) October 13, 2006 Bill C19 is a bill currently in process in Parliament. As a very simple statement to summarize it, it proposes to criminalize street racing. In the Bill the definition of street-racing is very wide-ranging and open to interpretation. At its best this bill is not intended to include organized, sanctioned motorsport and would not affect us; at its worst it could be interpreted to include all rally activities, including navigational rallying, solo etc. RallySport Ontario is clearly against street-racing. In fact we are actively involved in activities to denounce it and to promote safe and responsible motorsport activities, however this bill as written could put rally in jeopardy. Months ago several RSO members urged CARS & RSO to take direct action about this piece of legislation, each offering their time and expertise to the cause. RSO discussed the issue, determined as a Board that indeed we felt official action was warranted and asked Alasdair Robertson, who has considerable experience and expertise in politics and parliamentary procedures, to head a committee. The CARS Board later did the same. Alasdair and his group have been vigorously pursuing this project. Amongst many other resources, they have requested the assistance of the Organizers of the National rallies, Targa and CARS Board members in approaching appropriate contacts across the country. This has produced some highly positive contacts, including a direct personal conversation with the Minister of Justice. Alasdair was granted a meeting with the Deputy Chair of the Justice Committee, who reviewed the proposed legislation with him line by line. In addition Alasdair has written to various other members of the Justice Committee and will be contacting each in person. To date all contacts have been receptive and positive. In order for our efforts to yield the best results, we feel it is essential to support the group in every way possible and to direct all efforts through Alasdair. We believe it is best for him to be our only official spokesperson in Ottawa. As for the legislative process, Bill C19 has just been through its second reading. Following that it will go to committee for fine-tuning and further consideration. It is of interest to note that in the debate in the house at the time of the second reading, the Liberal Justice Critic mentioned rally specifically and the Deputy Chair of the Justice Committee also mentioned rally plus other organized motorsport. Clearly our message is being heard. At the most recent RSO meeting, Maple Leaf Rally Club announced that it will not be running the Ontario Winter Rally as a drivex event in 2007. The MLRC representative added that although statistics do not support the allegation, there is no doubt that the general perception exists that drivexes present a higher risk than other navigational road rallies. While the Bill C19 process is ongoing, MLRC feels that it wishes to back Alasdair and his committee in every way possible and thus decided to eliminate the possibility of its drivex event harming the cause. RSO then decided to further demonstrate its support by determining that it will not accept any drivex events in the 2007 ORRC Championship. Furthermore RSO is urging all RSO clubs to suspend drivexes for 2007. RSO will keep all its members and clubs posted of further developments. Ross Wood, RSO Secretary |
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Title: Re: RSO & BILL C19 - STREET RACING Post by Ferdinand on 10/13/6 at 15:48:21 Read all about it on the website of the Parliament of Canada at this link. From that link, you can read the Hansard text of member's speeches in the House. Click on the links, then use your browser to search for any mention of "rally", or even "road rally". |
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Title: Re: RSO & BILL C19 - STREET RACING Post by 1morelap on 10/17/6 at 09:05:11 It would have been easier to take if you waited till after the two biggest events in MCO rally calendar. Now the Golden Pine is cancelled because you're to inconsiderate to look at a calendar. wow, thanks. cheers. Greg van Dalen. |
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Title: Re: RSO & BILL C19 - STREET RACING Post by rosswood on 10/17/6 at 10:06:07 Greg, I'm afraid that is a very simplistic comment, clearly made without knowing all the facts. I will try to post a detailed response today to clarify this. It is a complex issue. Ross |
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Title: Re: RSO & BILL C19 - STREET RACING Post by Doug_Woods on 10/17/6 at 10:06:36 1morelap wrote on 10/17/6 at 09:05:11:
Perhaps, they did look at a calendar. Doug Woods |
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Title: Re: RSO & BILL C19 - STREET RACING Post by dtompsett on 10/17/6 at 10:22:13 RSO's decision doesn't stop clubs from running drivex events... they simply CAN'T do that... that is up to the clubs. RSO can however chose to not have drivex events on the ORRC schedule (which Golden Pines wasn't anyways), and can recommend to member clubs that they do not host drivex events for the time being. The decision to cancel GP can't have been easy for the organizers... however, it wasn't RSO's decision (although possibly their recommendation). Don't lash out at the rally community... if you want your voice heard, write a letter to your member of parliment! We're all disheartened by this turn of events... I know I was really looking forward to GP. Just means I have to find something else to do that weekend... with all the rallying, it's been a few years since I've been out to a halloween party! |
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Title: Re: RSO & BILL C19 - STREET RACING Post by 1morelap on 10/17/6 at 12:20:48 Yah, my emotions are out a wack, I know I'm barking at the wrong tree without any facts, I just feel kinda hopeless. I really do wish Alasdair and his crew all the best in their efforts. |
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Title: Re: RSO & BILL C19 - STREET RACING Post by Anthony_T on 10/17/6 at 13:43:20 It's better to sacrifice a season then to have the sport completely outlawed. |
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Title: Re: RSO & BILL C19 - STREET RACING Post by 1morelap on 10/17/6 at 14:06:26 It will be 2 years until the next Golden pine, that's distressing. I guess the part I don't understand, and it's clear I'm the only one, is how suspending all Drivex's will aid the Alasdair group? I hate being this "guy", but I need more info to understand. |
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Title: Re: RSO & BILL C19 - STREET RACING Post by rosswood on 10/17/6 at 14:33:41 I wrote this posting specifically in response to concerns expressed on the MCO site, but I think it is worthwhile posting here as well. I would like to make a few comments re Bill C19 and the recent events related to it that may shed some light for people. First of all this bill is a piece of federal legislation. Thus it has implications for motorsport in all provinces. It proposes to criminalize racing on a public property. The interpretation of what is racing is very wide-ranging and not specified clearly. That has potential implications to many levels of motorsport from rally to solo to rallycross to ice racing. While it was not likely ever intended to affect sanctioned motorsport, as written it could have huge impact on all of us. Thus it is essential for us all to fully support the committee under Alasdair Robertson that has already been working very hard. They have made significant progress. To best support them all efforts should be directed through Alasdair. He has already been in contact with CARS Directors, plus various clubs and Organizers and will indicate where other assistance is required. It is best to keep the effort focused. The decisions and recommendations do not just involve MLRC, MCO, Targa and RSO. As of the CARS Board meeting last night, each CARS Director across the country is considering action at this point. No one is a stronger supporter of drivexes than I am. I first organized the Ontario Winter Rally in 1985 and have put it on every year since. Many times in the past I have defended the record of drivexes and will continue to do so. However in recent times an increasing number of messages have been directed my way from many in the rally community expressing their concern over safety issues with drivexes. There is no denying that, rightly or wrongly, the general perception is that the drivex events are the highest risk events that we put on. And you know what they say about perception being the reality we must deal with. Since I first heard of Bill C19 and we formed the committee to represent us, I have been asking myself how best I can support them. I did not want my event in any way to harm the cause, so recently I decided to put the OWR on hold until this legislative process is complete. Upon presenting that news to the RSO Board, they decided to further support this initiative by not accepting any drivexes in the ORRC Calendar for 2007 and have recommended that clubs think seriously about drivex club events in 2007. RSO did not ask MCO to change plans for their Lanark Highlands or Golden Pines events, as the majority of the work had been done, competitors had made plans and the legislation was not expected to move forward until the new year. However apparently it was fast-tracked. The second reading has already occurred and it has now gone to committee. It is now that it will be examined in detail. It is now that our message will be considered. Our committee was fully aware and supportive of the path taken by MLRC and RSO. You can debate strategy all you like; this is the direction taken in our best judgement, the committee supports this strategy and that is that. As for the timing of the RSO announcement, it wouldn’t matter when it was presented, some would not have been happy. There was no ideal time. The legislative process mostly determined our moves. RSO felt it was essential to present the message as soon as possible and certainly in time for RSO clubs to plan appropriately for the upcoming Calendar Meeting. I wish to express my sympathy to Craig and Ferdinand and apologize if they found the timing of events put them in a difficult situation. Both of them considered their options very carefully. Both made difficult decisions based on their best judgement. We have all done the same. What more can you ask? So I wish to emphasize, please do not go off in all different directions. That will only present us as a fragmented group without a focus. Please work through your club leaders and Alasdair for the best effect. Ross Wood |
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Title: Re: RSO & BILL C19 - STREET RACING Post by 1morelap on 10/17/6 at 14:39:04 Thanks Ross, That helps. :) |
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Title: Re: RSO & BILL C19 - STREET RACING Post by 1morelap on 10/31/6 at 21:51:01 well that was weird, someone posted a thread with an enthusiastic response to the SMCC drivex scheduled for 2007. However it has been deleted. Was this a mistake? With all due respect that's not a great way to work with other clubs in examining the issue of Drivexs in 2007. I'll ask my question here then. What other clubs/organizations in Canada are urging the suspension of Drivexs in 2007? thanks, greg. |
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Title: Re: RSO & BILL C19 - STREET RACING Post by PeterWatt on 10/31/6 at 22:12:23 Always a tough decision. Having organized a couple of events, I'm cloudy as to when an event becomes a "drivex". While it would be a great disappointment to many, has the powers that be considered suspending all events until this is settled? I wonder how the police would view a navigational rallyist who made a navigational error and was running at 120 kph to make up time? I know I have done that and I suspect most others have as well. If the key is not to get lost, why would organizers try to trick us? I suspect RSO & CARS does have the power in that it could refuse to sanction any event, whether championship or not simply through edict and that would in effect cancel the insurance policy. One would hope that wouldn't happen, but is that something that should be considered? I'd also suggest moving discussion such as this to the official RSO forum where it could receive wider viewing. |
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Title: Re: RSO & BILL C19 - STREET RACING Post by 1morelap on 11/08/6 at 18:39:53 hey hey, looks like its moving forward quickly.. :) http://www.mco.org/cms/index.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=5970 |
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Title: Re: RSO & BILL C19 - STREET RACING Post by rosswood on 11/09/6 at 00:27:08 Indeed Bill C19 was fast-tracked through the House of Commons and is now being considered by the Senate. Alasdair Robertson and his committee are very busy contacting Senators to represent our interests. Clearly there have been some positive results of their efforts, judging by comments raised by Senators. |
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Title: Re: RSO & BILL C19 - STREET RACING Post by Ferdinand on 11/09/6 at 18:02:53 It is encouraging to see progress being made, but it's still a little frightening to read some of the comments made during the Senate debate. They still don't appear to fully "get it". See my comments in the MCO forum including a precedent within the Criminal Code which could be used as an example to exempt sanctioned motorsport. MCO Forum: Bill C-19 -- Street Racing |
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Title: Re: RSO & BILL C19 - STREET RACING Post by Craig_Hamm on 11/22/6 at 22:50:25 Late in the thread, but I will remind people that MCO is the **ONLY** club in Ontario (Canada?) that I know of that have used Time Allowances for SEVERAL YEARS now. This should address some of the behavioural problems that Peter mentioned. There was a *grave fear* and I was chastised by the old timers when we brought it in that it would ruin rally, but I haven't heard any complaints about it since from the competitors. I stood my ground, knowing it was right. Nobody ever had to make up 10 minutes on our rallies for wrong turn, anymore. Anybody not enjoy Lanark the last three years, or the highly sucessful MCO summer series, complete with TAs?? I rest my case! Craig LHR Organiser (forever) Past MCO Rally Director |
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Title: Re: RSO & BILL C19 - STREET RACING Post by Nikola on 11/22/6 at 23:29:41 [ot] Craig, this October, both my navigator and I agreed that between many fine, dedicated & respectable organizers, you are indubitably the most anal one when it comes to safety, inspection, public relationships and rules. We also both agree we wouldn't have it any other way :) The TA's are a phenomenally smart idea, and I remember being confused on my first OWR why in the world they don't exist on this icy event, for beginner's class at least. At any rate, I hope the situation gets resolved in time for Lanark 2007! :-> [/ot] |
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Title: Re: RSO & BILL C19 - STREET RACING Post by Ferdinand on 12/12/6 at 16:41:29 The Senate Committee for Legal and Constitutional Affairs is meeting to discuss Bill C-19 tomorrow, Wednesday, December 13, 2006 at 4:00 pm, and again Thursday afternoon. The Committee Agenda shows that Justice Minister Vic Toews and two lawyers from the Deptartment of Justice will be appearing before the Committee tomorrow. I asked the Committee Clerk when representatives of the motorsport organisations would be appearing as witnesses and received a reply that the posted schedule would be updated shortly with respect to another meeting of the Committee on Thursday afternoon. The schedule currently shows only up to Thursday morning. You can watch Senate Committee meetings broadcast live on Video/Audio webcast. Check this schedule for the correct weblink. |
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Title: Re: RSO & BILL C19 - STREET RACING Post by Ferdinand on 12/13/6 at 12:42:32 The schedule now shows the Legal and Constitutional Affairs Committee meeting this afternoon (Wednesday) at 4:00pm, and resuming tomorrow (Thursday) morning at 10:45am. |
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Title: Re: RSO & BILL C19 - STREET RACING Post by rosswood on 12/13/6 at 20:58:26 Use the following to connect directly to proceedings in the Senate Committee tomorrow (Thursday, December13th). Alasdair Robertson and several other representatives of various motorsports groups, including Targa Newfoundland and CASC-OR are scheduled at 10:45 A.M. http://www.parl.gc.ca/Common/Committee_SenWebcast.asp?Language=E http://216.113.10.94/Sen-A108-V-EN-VM |
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Title: Re: RSO & BILL C19 - STREET RACING Post by dtompsett on 12/14/6 at 11:08:00 Listening right now... but holy... turn up the audio output feed... having to crank the audio on the computer means all the normal sounds are super amplified... not so good when you're at work! :-[ |
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Title: Re: RSO & BILL C19 - STREET RACING Post by jgardhouse on 12/14/6 at 11:30:23 http://216.113.10.94/Sen-A107-A-EN-AL is the audio link. The gentlemen from Targa was very well spoken, good work! I'm sure the other presentations where good, but I only recently tuned in. |
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Title: Re: RSO & BILL C19 - STREET RACING Post by rosswood on 12/14/6 at 13:14:52 All four representatives who spoke on behalf of various factions of motorsport spoke extremely well and fielded the questions very well. The Senators certainly seemed to appreciate their presence and input. It was fascinating to listen in live on the discussions - certainly nice to see an aspect of government that is totally open. Thanks again to Alasdair Robertson et al for doing a fantastic job of representing our interests. |
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Title: Re: RSO & BILL C19 - STREET RACING Post by Ferdinand on 12/14/6 at 16:19:26 Quote:
Not only are the Committee Hearings webcast live, but any member of the public can attend and sit in the gallery to watch. Since Parliament Hill is practically across the street from my office, I skipped out of work to sit in on the hearing today. It was very interesting, and educational. Alasdair Robertson was the first up, and since he represents CARS and our rallying interests, I thought his presentation was the most pertinent and I was very impressed in how he delivered it. He is extremely well spoken in the things he said, and evidently very politically-savvy in the things he chose not to say. My only complaint is I wish he had been the last to speak, as his stuff really was the most important. Scott Ellsworth representing CASC-OR described the many aspects of sanctioned motorsport within Ontario ranging from on-track events, to autoslalom events, and even ice-racing. Judging from the raised eyebrows and comments from the committee members, it was clear that none of them had any idea how hugely popular grassroots parking lot slalom events are in Ontario. Charlie Johnstone representing GP Assoc of Toronto and Champ Car's interests in Canada was mostly concerned about the definition of street racing including any 'public place", which would clearly include the public areas of the CNE grounds in Toronto where races are conducted on what would otherwise be open streets. Robert Giannou's presentation on Targa Newfoundland, including power point slides, was by far the most impressive as it illustrated what an enormous fiscal benefit the event has been for the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. Each one of the witnesses stressed that our sanctioned events are organised, planned, and conducted according to stringent safety regulations, bylaws, and applicable laws, and according to the regulations imposed by our own sanctioning bodies. After the presentations, each Senator on the committee had an opportunity to ask questions. That's when the fun started. They immediately shot down the Champ Car and CASC-OR events as being not applicable since they are conducted on a closed course not accessible to the public. Therefore there would be no concern related to the street racing legislation. This despite Senator Joyal establishing yesterday that a shopping centre parking lot is most definitely a 'public place'. I suppose it would all come down to how effectively access to the lot was controlled to prevent the public from stumbling into a Solo event. Similarly the 'racing' portion of Targa Nfld, and other CARS performance rallies, is conducted on closed road stages and therefore shouldn't be a concern. Alasdair raised a good point that the roads are not necessarily 'closed', but access is limited under the control of the event organizor for a length of time. I'm not sure whether the implications of that distinction were clearly understood by everyone. Then things got a little murky as the example was raised again of how a hockey player using excessive force could still be charged with assault. He is not exempt from the law simply because he's taking part in an organised hockey game. Similarly, racers could still be charged with criminal negligence causing injury or death if the circumstances warranted it. Each of the witnesses stressed the great pains taken to ensure that our events are conducted safely and according to the law. It was stressed that the Highway Traffic Act must be obeyed at all times and that anyone getting stopped for a ticket is automatically disqualified and excluded. One of the Senators asked if any participant had ever been charged with criminal negligence during an event. When the answer was no, the obvious next question was, so why are you so worried about this? How does it affect you? [...] |
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Title: Re: RSO & BILL C19 - STREET RACING Post by Ferdinand on 12/14/6 at 16:19:50 Personally, I didn't think things were going our way up to this point. The Senators listened politely to all the presentations, but I still didn't have the impression that any of them understood why we were so worried about the proposed legislation. Organised motorsport is doing a fine job as it is. It's all done on closed roads, or on race tracks, so what's the issue here? In yesterday's meeting, the Minister of Justice clearly said that closed road events are not included within the proposed definition of street racing, and even mentioned Targa Nfld explicitly. It was stated that if a case was ever brought to court, the Senate Committee transcript could be produced as evidence to demonstrate that the Minister never intended such events to be included. Scott Ellsworth pointed out the CASC-OR is a non-profit organisation staffed by volunteers and the cost of contesting such an issue in court could have serious financial consequences for its member clubs. Somewhere in there, Alasdair scored some really excellent points that I believe may have turned the tide in our favour. Several times the Senators mentioned the additional "burden" imposed on the prosecution as they would be required to prove the extra condition of "street racing". In an offence already involving criminal negligence, it requires an additional step to also prove street racing was involved before the extra penalties could be applied. Thus the charge of street racing would likely only very rarely be laid. But Alasdair explained that it would in fact be much easier for the prosecution to apply the street racing definition, as proposed, to a racer participating in a sanctioned event than it would be to the actual intended targets of the legislation, the spontaneous drag racers competing in impromptu events on open roads. Because our events are carefully planned and organised and advertised well in advance, and documented with easily followed paper trails, it would in fact be quite simple for the prosecution to demonstrate whether or not we were involved in a timed event on public roads. Thus the extra "burden" argument makes no sense at all. The only question is whether or not we are involved in a "race", which currently is not defined. Performance events quite clearly are a race. But it's not so clear whether transits between stages, or TSD road rallies on open roads could be considered a race. I think it was only then that, at last, the light bulb went on and some of them understood why we're so concerned. The four witnesses had submitted written documents including proposed text to be inserted in the definition of "street racing" which would explicitly exempt officially sanctioned motorsport. One of the very last questions asked by the Committee panel was whether this was the ONLY change required to make us happy. Unanimously, Yes! Each of the witnesses agreed that we have no objections whatsoever to the rest of the Bill, and that in fact organized motorsport is 100% in favour of this Bill to get rid of outlaw "street racing". The only issue for us is the fear that sanctioned motorsport could somehow get swept up into the same category as street racers, and that the definition of street racing must be clarified to explicitly exclude sanctioned motorsport. Alasdair provided an example scenario where Grandma loses control of her car, hurts someone, and possibly gets charged with criminal negligence. In contrast, anyone in a similar situation, but driving a conspicuous rally car, might automatically be slapped with the much more serious charge of criminal negligence while street racing. After that the meeting took a recess and the witnesses were excused. My feeling is that the Committee finally understood the issues. It will be very interesting to see what develops from here. |
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Title: Re: RSO & BILL C19 - STREET RACING Post by DaveC on 12/14/6 at 21:24:26 Ferdinand, I would just like to say thank you for your detailed summary of todays events. Let us hope that the senators and everyone else took notice of the changes that were asked for and include it. I am hoping that this bill with the changes may help with the insurance issue that many also face in Ontario. If the bill recognizes legitimate organized motorsport perhaps it may force others to recognize it too? |
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Title: Re: RSO & BILL C19 - STREET RACING Post by fuzzy on 12/15/6 at 09:14:29 As was said, thanks for the summary Ferdinand. Curious to know if there will be a re-broadcast of the hearings on the parlimentary channel, it'd be interesting to watch. |
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Title: Re: RSO & BILL C19 - STREET RACING Post by rosswood on 12/15/6 at 09:25:38 Yesterday afternoon, despite the presentations from the four representatives of Canadian motorsport groups re Bill C19 (Street Racing) , who were urging for an amendment to be included in the Bill exempting properly organized and sanctioned motorsport events, the Senate Committee accepted the Bill with no changes, took it back to the full Senate, pushed it through 3rd reading, voted to accept the Bill as-is, passed it on, and even had it signed by the Governor General all by 5:24pm. Signed, sealed, delivered and given Royal Assent. Clearly it was a very high priority of the government to pass this Bill into law. |
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Title: Re: RSO & BILL C19 - STREET RACING Post by rosswood on 12/15/6 at 11:27:21 See the following excerpt from the report of the Senate Committee that heard our presentations yesterday: DONALD H. OLIVER Chair Observations to the Ninth Report of the Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs Your Committee is in favour of addressing directly the problem of street racing in Canada. It has, therefore, approved Bill C-19 without amendment. We do, however, have some concerns with how the bill may be implemented. We understand that the bill does not apply to races organized by a recognized sanctioning body and subject to all applicable laws. The Minister of Justice told the Committee "Bill C-19 would not include legitimate motor sport activities. It will not criminalize races that occur on closed tracks, circuits, or streets closed to the public, or to rallies sanctioned by recognized motor sport authorities and conducted in accordance with the law." The Minister cited the Targa Newfoundland race as an example of what would not be included in Bill C-19. Your Committee therefore requests the Department of Justice to monitor the implementation of Bill C-19 to ensure that it is not used to criminalize currently legal, sanctioned racing. We request that a copy of these observations be forwarded to the Department of Justice so that it may carry out this monitoring function. Clearly although we did not achieve what we were hoping for, there was value in the efforts of Alasdair et al. They put a huge amount of work and energy into this initiative. We owe them a large vote of thanks. |
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Title: Re: RSO & BILL C19 - STREET RACING Post by Ferdinand on 12/15/6 at 11:56:42 Evidently our Government did not wish to delay the implementation of this legislation. Had the Senate Committee recommended any amendments to the Bill, the entire package would need to be sent back to the House of Commons to be debated there again. The Bill could then have been revised, defeated altogether, or approved by the House. If approved with the recommended changes it would then come back through the Senate again, before ultimately being signed by the Governor General and given Royal Assent to pass into law. That whole process could have been fastracked again, as it was before. Or the Bill might have stalled in the House, or been wiped out entirely if the Government is defeated and another election is forced on us before the Bill is approved. Instead, the Government hustled this Bill, and three others, as quickly as possible through the system so that they could be gift-wrapped and presented to the Canadian public as Christmas gifts. The Senate and the House of Commons then adjourned and won't return until the end of January. However, all is not lost. When the Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs reported their conclusions back to the full Senate, in order to avoid delaying this Bill which everyone otherwise unanimously approves, they approved the Bill without amendment. However they took an additional and highly unusual step. To ensure that their recommendations are enshrined in the Senate Hansard records, this statement was read into the record: Quote:
You can read the full record here. While this is not nearly as good as having it written clearly into the Criminal Code, it's pretty much almost as good. Merry Christmas! |
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Title: Re: RSO & BILL C19 - STREET RACING Post by rosswood on 12/22/6 at 10:00:48 The following is Alasdair Robertson's summary of what happened with Bill C19. As Chair of the CARS Committee that dealt with Bill C19, Alasdair's report represents the most inside and accurate view possible. Hi Everyone, I wanted to touch base with all of you about where we now are with C-19, but I didn't want to do so until things had settled a little and we had more of the final documentation. As you all know by now, C-19 passed without amendment but with significant observations attached by the Senators during final passage. The bill has since received royal assent and is now the law of the land. Presently it will be gazetted to all Crown Attorneys for their information and use. It is already on the Justice Department's website. What does not appear there are the notes which accompany the printed form supplied to the CAs. We are currently trying to get a copy of this document. If you did not hear the Minister's remarks to the Committee last Wednesday, or those made on behalf of motor sport last Thursday and the subsequent deliberations of the Senators, I want in particular to highlight some important things: 1. The Minister made a specific statement about legitimate motor sports including rally. He specifically mentioned Targa Newfoundland as an example of what they do not intend to legislate via C-19. 2. The Senators, in their observations attached to the bill, specifically make the same point about legitimate sanctioned motor sport and quote the Minister to that effect. 3. The Senators also specifically asked (more of an instruction in Parliamentary terms) that the Justice Department monitor the implementation of the Bill to assure that it does not impact legitimate sanctioned motor sports. 4. The Senators on the committee also explicitly discussed what form this monitoring should take. They did this "on the record" rather than "in camera." (I've seen the minutes in draft form. Presently they will be published as well.) 5. The Minister has since issued a press release (see attached) in which he again states that legitimate motor sports are not the target of C-19. What does all this mean? In my view, this means we have succeeded well beyond what we might easily have expected when we began this process. It is never easy to get a government to clarify its policies on a piece of legislation once the bill has had first reading. It is even harder if that bill has been fast-tracked with the agreement of the other parties. While I would ideally have liked an amendment to C-19, we should feel very pleased, and more than a little lucky, to have had the kind of success that we did. We are a legal activity, subject of course to our own continued good behaviour. Our success with C-19 could not have happened without a great deal of effort from several groups and individuals who need to be acknowledged. First I want to mention the particular support of three of our board members. Suzanne, Ray, and Clark were towers of strength. Each of them in their own way played important roles with research, contact building, and freeing up help from within their regions. We had similar support through Ross and the organizer's committee. In particular, each of the Quebec organizers was quick to respond when we expected to appear before the House committee and offer local information about their Members of Parliament and to share their contacts. I also want to mention individual members of our sport who really came through for us, Craig Hamm and others, especially Terry Dale, at MCO were super. Rich Hepburn offered us the full support of Rally of the Tall Pines as the closest rally, Jeff Hagen did research and was quick to help out as were Elise Racette and Luc Brunette. Andrew Comrie-Picard was a huge help as we formulated messaging and arguments. Finally, from within rally sport, we owe a huge debt to Robert Giannou and Don Peckham. Don got us on the radar with the Minister back in August, and Robert made a very effective presentation last Thursday. In between they both did anything which was asked to support the process. We are also in the debt of our friends within the other motor sports disciplines. CASC-OR, in the person of Scott Ellsworth, and Charlie Johnstone and John Clagett from the Champ Car World Series stood up to be counted on this issue when they could have left us to go it alone. Anything we achieved last week owes a great deal to the legitimacy and weight they brought to the testimony before the Senate Committee. When you have the opportunity, I would recommend that each of you examine the testimony before the committee, and in particular the questions raised by the Senators about what steps we take to assure we are behaving responsibly, and what expectations we place on those who take part. It highlights, I think, a whole range of issues for us to address as we go forward in the post C-19 era. This is, however, a subject for another time. Best regards, Alasdair |
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Title: Re: RSO & BILL C19 - STREET RACING Post by rosswood on 12/22/6 at 10:03:27 The following is the exact text of the comments from the Senate re Bill C19 Criminal Code Bill to Amend—Report of Committee Leave having been given to revert to Presentation of Reports from Standing or Special Committees: Hon. Donald H. Oliver, Chair of the Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs, presented the following report: Thursday, December 14, 2006 The Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs has the honour to present its NINTH REPORT Your Committee, to which was referred Bill C-19, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (street racing) and to make a consequential amendment to the Corrections and Conditional Release Act, has, in obedience to the Order of Reference of Tuesday, November 21, 2006, examined the said Bill and now reports the same without amendment. Your Committee appends to this report certain observations relating to the Bill. Respectfully submitted, DONALD H. OLIVER Chair Observations to the Ninth Report of the Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs Your Committee is in favour of addressing directly the problem of street racing in Canada. It has, therefore, approved Bill C-19 without amendment. We do, however, have some concerns with how the bill may be implemented. We understand that the bill does not apply to races organized by a recognized sanctioning body and subject to all applicable laws. The Minister of Justice told the Committee "Bill C-19 would not include legitimate motor sport activities. It will not criminalize races that occur on closed tracks, circuits, or streets closed to the public, or to rallies sanctioned by recognized motor sport authorities and conducted in accordance with the law." The Minister cited the Targa Newfoundland race as an example of what would not be included in Bill C-19. Your Committee therefore requests the Department of Justice to monitor the implementation of Bill C-19 to ensure that it is not used to criminalize currently legal, sanctioned racing. We request that a copy of these observations be forwarded to the Department of Justice so that it may carry out this monitoring function. Third Reading The Hon. the Speaker: When shall this bill be read the third time? Hon. Donald H. Oliver: Honourable senators, with leave of the Senate and notwithstanding rule 58(1)(b), I move that the bill be read for the third time now. The Hon. the Speaker: Is leave granted, honourable senators? Hon. Senators: Agreed. The Hon. the Speaker: Is it your pleasure, honourable senator, to adopt the motion? Hon. Serge Joyal: Honourable senators, I will be very brief. I would like to inform all the senators in attendance in this chamber of the substance of the observations that we are appending to the report of the committee that reports this bill with no amendments. I would like to read the observations into our journals because they have, in my opinion, legal implications for the Crown prosecutor who will be responsible for the implementation of this bill. Your Committee is in favour of addressing directly the problem of street racing in Canada. It has, therefore, approved Bill C-19 without amendment. We do, however, have some concerns with how the bill may be implemented. We understand that the bill does not apply to races organized by a recognized sanctioning body and subject to all applicable laws. The Minister of Justice told the committee "Bill C-19 would not include legitimate motor sport activities. It will not criminalize races that occur on closed tracks, circuits or streets closed to the public, or to rallies sanctioned by recognized motor sport authorities and conducted in accordance with the law." The justice minister cited the Targa Newfoundland race as an example of what would not be included in Bill C-19. Your Committee therefore requests the Department of Justice to monitor the implementation of Bill C-19 to ensure that it is not used to criminalize currently legal, sanctioned racing. We request that a copy of these observations be forwarded to the Department of Justice so that it may carry out this monitoring function. It is, honourable senators, with that in mind that we recommend to this chamber that the bill be not amended but adopted, as introduced at second reading and as reported by the Honourable Senator Donald Oliver. The Hon. the Speaker: Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion? Motion agreed to and bill read third time and passed. (1540) [Translation] Adjournment Motion Adopted |
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Title: Re: RSO & BILL C19 - STREET RACING Post by rosswood on 12/22/6 at 10:06:16 The following is the government's press release following the passage of Bill C19. STREET RACING BILL BECOMES LAW OTTAWA, December 15, 2006 – The Honourable Vic Toews, Q.C., Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada, today welcomed the Royal Assent and coming into force of Bill C-19, which will help protect Canada's streets and communities from the threat of street racing. "People who disregard the safety of our streets must be met with serious consequences," said Minister Toews, "Bill C-19 amends the Criminal Code to create targeted, new offences to specifically combat street racing. This, activity is causing too many tragic and senseless fatalities on Canada's roadways." These new offences build upon existing Criminal Code offences and provide enhanced maximum penalties of incarceration for the most serous street racing offences. Bill C-19 also creates mandatory minimum periods of driving prohibition for those convicted of street racing. "This is the type of penalty Canadians expect for those who abuse the privilege of operating a motor vehicle and put the lives of innocent people at risk," said Minister Toews. The length of the driving prohibitions will increase for repeat offenders. In the most serious cases involving repeat street racing offenders, Bill C-19 provides for a mandatory lifetime driving prohibition. This would occur when an offender has at least two street racing convictions which have caused bodily harm or death and at least one of those convictions involves street racing causing death. "Legitimate motor-sport activities will not be criminalized by Bill C-19," stated Minister Toews. "Races that occur on closed tracks, circuits, streets closed to the public or rallies that are sanctioned by recognised motor sport authorities and conducted in accordance with the law will not be affected by these amendments." For an online version of the legislation, visit www.parl.gc.ca. - 30 - Ref.: Mark Quinlan Press Secretary Office of the Minister of Justice 613-992-4621 Media Relations Department of Justice 613-957-4207 |
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Title: Re: RSO & BILL C19 - STREET RACING Post by dtompsett on 12/22/6 at 11:25:55 Hmm... ya... still makes me nervous... at what point can they argue that an event is no longer within the law due to 'careless driving'... you don't have to be speeding to be found guilty of careless driving. |
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Title: Re: RSO & BILL C19 - STREET RACING Post by Wedge on 12/22/6 at 18:50:21 dtompsett wrote on 12/22/6 at 11:25:55:
Dude, careless driving is never within the law (and never has been), whether it's during an event or not. If you're entered in any type of road rally, and you can be charged with careless driving, no differently than any other time. I really like the final statement in their official press release. Firstly, that means the witnesses who spoke to the senate on our behalf did a great job, and made a big impact. We all owe a huge thanks to Alasdair, et all. Secondly, it's now been made completely public that rallies, are not the targets of this law. So it seems to me (other than the government now being far more aware of us than ever before), nothing has really changed for us. If you are participating in an event, and are caught speeding, or reckless driving, or whatever, you can certainly be charged with any of those offences. However, even though you are participating in a "timed event", it is NOT classified as street racing. Which, of couse, is a VERY good thing. |
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Title: Re: RSO & BILL C19 - STREET RACING Post by dtompsett on 12/22/6 at 19:42:50 wrote on 12/22/6 at 18:50:21:
I was not trying to imply that I should be allowed to get away with driving with a lack of due diligence just because I'm part of an open-road rally. We all need to know drive within our limits, within the limits of the road, and within the limits of those around us. Just because your car can handle taking a corner at 120km/h, and your skill level can handle taking a corner at 120km/h, doesn't mean you're allowed to ignore the 80km/h speedlimit. Simple fact is, if you get pulled over during a rally, there's a pretty good chance you're getting pulled over for a valid reason. You're right, that hasn't changed, and we shouldn't expect it to... we are still on public roads, have to obey the laws. |
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Title: Re: RSO & BILL C19 - STREET RACING Post by rosswood on 01/05/7 at 16:44:51 This posting is to bring people up to speed on what is happening following Bill C19 and to assure everyone that appropriate action is underway. Alasdair Robertson made a very detailed report to the CARS Board last night about Bill C19. It included not only the facts of what happened, but also his observations about the situation that leaves us in and recommendations for future action. Probably the most significant statement he made was, " We are at the beginning of this issue, not the end." He sees potential major implications to follow, both politically and in practice. He sees it as affecting all levels of rally. The next step is for each of the CARS Region Directors to take it to their Region Boards for discussion and action. In the meantime things should carry on as normal with everyone (Organizers, Competitors etc) being certain that they are following all rally regulations and procedures very carefully. Competitors are reminded that at all times they must never break any Highway Traffic Act Regulations while participating in any motorsport event. |
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