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Message started by John_Vanos on 11/25/8 at 08:00:05

Title: In car from car #6 at Tall Pines
Post by John_Vanos on 11/25/8 at 08:00:05

In car of the Planet Motorsport/Williams Rally Racing Subaru is up!

SS1 - Good clean run
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPTWPYYI1P8

SS2 - Caught up to Burke where Block went off, followed for half the stage, excuse the expletives, I was pisseed that he didnt have any brake lights!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qs5SkKlXAIg

SS3 - Good clean run, cautios at first then flat out until we spun at the Iron Bridge, the tires were DONE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mSnW8o3Zkw

SS4 - Good run, brake pedal started to stick half way through, couldnt left foot brake
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0ln63zYgDE

SS5 - Spectator stage, no notes as Ryan was puking, took it easyish, brake pedal still sticking, on 3 wheel studs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGvsQnrXtEw

Title: Re: In car from car #6 at Tall Pines
Post by grinthock_justin on 11/25/8 at 10:35:23

That's awesome stuff John.....

Ryan, switch to decaf buddy!! hahaha...

Great to see the races from your perspective guys, we spent a good 4 hours cleaning up the peanut, and it was pretty crazy even in pickup's, that was funny at the washout "This is the worst one, I can't even SLOW DOWN!!"

That water was DEEP!

Was good to see that spin out at iron bridge from your perspective, I know that Tweeter (in the silver pickup) had to clean his seat after that, you spun out pretty close to him.

Regarding his brake lights, I know that even though we are not required to check them - but we did check everyone's brake lights at tech, so something must have gone wrong after he left...

Title: Re: In car from car #6 at Tall Pines
Post by RyanHuber on 11/25/8 at 15:46:32

Rumour has it that he had them disconnected, post tech. Yeah, nice guy...

Title: Re: In car from car #6 at Tall Pines
Post by grinthock_justin on 11/25/8 at 15:48:43

RyanHuber wrote on 11/25/8 at 15:46:32:

Rumour has it that he had them disconnected, post tech. Yeah, nice guy...

Why would someone do that? PLEASE don't tell me this is some stupid "extra lights eat fuel" argument...

I will re-check the video I have of his car going past me on 5 and 7, because most people braked going up the hill.

Title: Re: In car from car #6 at Tall Pines
Post by RyanHuber on 11/25/8 at 15:55:07

I would think you'd do it for exactly the reason in the video. If someone catches you it'll totally throw them off if they can't tell when you're braking.

They inquired and got a 1m20s time allowance for stopping at Block's crash. As you can see, they were leaving just as we got there, so really they were only stopped for 1 minute. The other 20 seconds was spent holding us up...

Title: Re: In car from car #6 at Tall Pines
Post by grinthock_justin on 11/25/8 at 15:57:58

I don't have video of his rear - but i have photos, and he didn't have his brake lights on going up the hill on A5 past quarry rd either. Which is impossible, there's no way he went up that hill and didn't brake.

That's BS, too many people could get hurt.

Title: Re: In car from car #6 at Tall Pines
Post by dtompsett on 11/25/8 at 16:10:43

Well... Pat Richard left the last service with only one working brake light... and each light is made up of multiple LED's. So I'm assuming the wiring got knocked off his light during a service.

Perhaps Burke had a wiring problem...
-dead switch
-hit the switch/wiring and damaged it
-blown fuse
-damaged harness.

Did anyone tell him that none of his brake lights worked?

I had a brake light switch fail once... the car had a fault and whenever I started driving it, after hitting the brakes for the first time, an indicator would come on to tell me I had a burnt out bulb (even though they all worked). The only reason I knew my brake switch had quit working... the faulty indicator failed to come on one day!

I've driven behind lots of cars with only 1 working light, and behind several with no working brake lights at all!

Title: Re: In car from car #6 at Tall Pines
Post by Do_It_Sidewayz on 11/25/8 at 16:19:27

you know "old time" rallyists use to have a switch hidden someplace for the brake lights...

if someone would catch them, they would flip the switch, and screw up the following car!

It actually works if the following driver hasn't done any wheel-to-wheel experience.

If this is the case, and he's reading, he's probably pissing himself laughing, because it worked!

Having said that....last year at pines, when i did tech, i had working brake lights. But noticed that in pictures and videos they were never on...investigated and sure enough the brake switch on the pedal box had broken!

Title: Re: In car from car #6 at Tall Pines
Post by John_Vanos on 11/25/8 at 16:29:00

i'm not sure if it was on purpose and I was mad at the time, but what made it worse was the snow dust, make his car that much harder to see and judge where he was...I was not pushing close to him most times as there is no room to pass there without going off the road and that stage you do not want to go off the road! Ive had problems with lights before too, i'll give him the benefit of the doubt. I did tell his codriver and he seemed surprised

Title: Re: In car from car #6 at Tall Pines
Post by grinthock_justin on 11/25/8 at 16:36:41

Now that I've read this thread i'll be sure to put it on my little list of things I like to check during tech, doesn't take long to peek under at the brake switch and look for a splice

Title: Re: In car from car #6 at Tall Pines
Post by Do_It_Sidewayz on 11/25/8 at 16:38:35

grinthock_justin wrote on 11/25/8 at 16:36:41:

Now that I've read this thread i'll be sure to put it on my little list of things I like to check during tech, doesn't take long to peek under at the brake switch and look for a splice

Don't bother...if someone is going to go to ALL that trouble..you really think they are going to hide it right under the dash in "plain view"?

Title: Re: In car from car #6 at Tall Pines
Post by grinthock_justin on 11/25/8 at 16:40:46

Do_It_Sidewayz wrote on 11/25/8 at 16:38:35:

grinthock_justin wrote on 11/25/8 at 16:36:41:

Now that I've read this thread i'll be sure to put it on my little list of things I like to check during tech, doesn't take long to peek under at the brake switch and look for a splice

Don't bother...if someone is going to go to ALL that trouble..you really think they are going to hide it right under the dash in "plain view"?

Probably true... That's BS regardless...

Title: Re: In car from car #6 at Tall Pines
Post by nhibbert on 11/25/8 at 18:36:56

John - Should have just driven right on his ass and punted him off the road at a corner.

"Sorry mate, couldn't see your tail lights"

Title: Re: In car from car #6 at Tall Pines
Post by Craig_Hamm on 11/25/8 at 21:20:05

If you suspect something is dodgy why not lodge an inquiry about the fitness of their car at the next service? Did you? Otherwise, the problem can be repeated throughout the rally. Anyway, nice driving John.

Title: Re: In car from car #6 at Tall Pines
Post by mattman_4444 on 11/26/8 at 09:55:04

At 6:30 in the vid where you are stuck behind that car, what happened to Block? It's hard to see in the vid, but I'm guessing he went off on the left into those evergreens? Was it a nasty off?

Title: Re: In car from car #6 at Tall Pines
Post by John_Vanos on 11/26/8 at 10:33:45

about 1km from where he was off you will see some trees down on the left side of a R4, there was a piece of his bumper cover there, and when we came around that corner we saw block, in the same place matt barnes went off testing in 2005 i think it was, anyway, couldnt see the damage, doubt its too too bad, but the car was about 5ft down in the ditch

Title: Re: In car from car #6 at Tall Pines
Post by Robin_Fleguel on 11/26/8 at 11:24:12

I know it didn't seem it at the time, but holy crap is that SS2 video funny - I love the comments. Thank you for posting it.

Title: Re: In car from car #6 at Tall Pines
Post by Wedge on 11/26/8 at 12:54:25

John_Vanos wrote on 11/26/8 at 10:33:45:

That's true, that was the same corner I went off at a few years ago. If I'd realized that, I would've mentioned it to him while the Talon was being extracted. I'd be like: "Don't feel bad Ken, that corner is tough even for the best drivers!"

Title: Re: In car from car #6 at Tall Pines
Post by jgardhouse on 11/26/8 at 13:38:09

Matt, there was actually a noticeable opening of the trees there, John warned me that was where you went off and I shouldn't follow in your footsteps.

Title: Re: In car from car #6 at Tall Pines
Post by Tom_H on 11/26/8 at 21:29:46

I just checked out my photos of Burke on Egan Creek and he had just the left brake light working.

Title: Re: In car from car #6 at Tall Pines
Post by Eddie Fries on 11/27/8 at 00:06:49

RyanHuber wrote on 11/25/8 at 15:46:32:

Rumour has it that he had them disconnected, post tech. Yeah, nice guy...

Who informed you of this rumour ?

Title: Re: In car from car #6 at Tall Pines
Post by Wedge on 11/27/8 at 00:11:07

j_gardhouse wrote on 11/26/8 at 13:38:09:

Matt, there was actually a noticeable opening of the trees there, John warned me that was where you went off and I shouldn't follow in your footsteps.

Yup, this is where that opening came from:

Title: Re: In car from car #6 at Tall Pines
Post by John_Vanos on 11/27/8 at 06:55:52

Eddie, obviously this 'rumor' is just that. Dont worry, no hard feelings, and I do apologize for getting upset about it, at the time it was frustrating and during a rally you dont always think clearly.

I am glad to have met you, you're a great team and I hope we can mix it up somewhere at a rally in the US next year!

Title: Re: In car from car #6 at Tall Pines
Post by Eddie Fries on 11/27/8 at 10:03:22

John_Vanos wrote on 11/27/8 at 06:55:52:

John, I can understand being upset getting stuck behind someones dust. We were unaware that our lights had failed.

We are also glad to have met you and Ian hope to see you guys south of the border next year. Hopefully somewhere warmer.

A note to the following, Ryan Huber, Justin Grinthock, Do-It-Sidswayz and Nhibbert. In case you did not notice we stopped to assist car # 3, who were off the road and still in the car. This is a scary situation to come across on a stage not knowing if the crew are O.K. Thankfully in this case they were O.K. and we proceeded to the Finish of the stage.

How you can turn this serious incident around and come up with a crazy theory that we tried to block John on the stage is absolutely stupid.

I don't know how you guys think but the last thing to enter a normal mind in this situation would be the blocking of a following car.

Who in their right mind would switch off brake lights and run the risk of another competitor crashing into them.

Title: Re: In car from car #6 at Tall Pines
Post by Lensman on 11/27/8 at 11:34:08

Guys, I had to sign on here as I was blown away by what I was reading! It’s obvious that you all don’t know Seamus Burke very well. If you think for one second that Seamus Burke or John Buffum would go to a rally and rig anything you’re very wrong, I am sure they had more pressing issues to worry about.
More concerning that a safety steward from the rally is here on line feeding into the theory is just wrong!!!
If anything I think that the brake lights were stuck on, I have a picture as Seamus turned down into the tight section of the peanut and the brake lights were on, also @ 6:21 in the video as John stopped behind Seamus the brake lights were clearly on. I have a picture of Seamus later in the day with only one brake light much like Pat. Did he have a switch for the left and right?? come on!
Seamus has been rallying for 30 years, hands up how many people ever caught Seamus Burke on a competitive stage, the only reason that John was so close behind Seamus was because he stopped to assist Block who was nowhere to be seen when Burke and Fries arrived.
Regardless it was my first time at the Pines, it’s a great Rally. We hope to see a few more Canadians down state side in 09.

Neil McDaid

Title: Re: In car from car #6 at Tall Pines
Post by Do_It_Sidewayz on 11/27/8 at 14:33:17

I'm not saying Seamus has a switch! just that it was a trick a pile of people did in the past! It's fun to fuel the fire sometimes ;)

Brake lights stop working...as i said it happened to me at pines 2007.

and in the video...it wouldn't have mattered if the lights didn't work..you couldn't see them anyways, too much dust/snow/etc.

and well..John wasn't close enough anyways ;)

Title: Re: In car from car #6 at Tall Pines
Post by NMathew on 11/29/8 at 10:41:31

Not to keep this going because I think it's pretty much put to bed now, but I can understand why John would be frustrated in the stage if he couldn't see brake lights.

Having said that it wouldn't really make sense to me that someone who has been rallying for years (lots of them apparently), who is a hell of a driver, would need to do something like that. Why spend a 6 figure number on a car to have someone rear end you in a stage?

Congrats on the finish Seamus. I was hoping you wouldn't get the time reversed so we could 'luck' our way in to a podium finish, but really can't complain about being beaten by an obviously faster driver/car!!

All I can attest to is that when we pulled up to the night stages with Seamus a few cars ahead he had brake lights working.

Great job to all involved for the event. It was a lot of fun for a Pines first timer. Thanks to John V for making sure we stayed on the road. Seemed like John was going to be very mad if we didn't finish. Afterall he wanted his starter back in one piece so he could get home!!

Thanks John and everybody from Planet Motorsport for keeping us going!!

Title: Re: In car from car #6 at Tall Pines
Post by Anthony_T on 11/29/8 at 10:57:55

Perhaps we should all run brighter brake light bulbs in snow events? Or those red rear fog lights like they run in some countries. This can't be the first time that one couldn't see the brake lights of the car they caught up to in a winter stage.

Title: Re: In car from car #6 at Tall Pines
Post by Robin_Fleguel on 11/29/8 at 11:09:25

Anthony_T wrote on 11/29/8 at 10:57:55:

I dunno ... rallying wouldn't be rallying if stuff like this didn't happen from time-to-time.
Robin