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MLRC Forum
https://www.mlrc.ca/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl General >> Rally >> Two classes only? https://www.mlrc.ca/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1261576280 Message started by overthehill on 12/23/9 at 08:51:20 |
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Title: Two classes only? Post by overthehill on 12/23/9 at 08:51:20 There is a lot of discussion going on about "two classes only - AWD and 2WD" (plus the usual flaming of people who do not agree with each another) at the Special Stage http://www.specialstage.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39256. What do you think? Would it make sense to run only 2 classes in Canada? |
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Title: Re: Two classes only? Post by Daniel_Buehler on 12/23/9 at 10:34:32 I'd love it! |
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Title: Re: Two classes only? Post by Wedge on 12/23/9 at 12:13:46 The reasoning behind it is sound. But it does not take into account that it completely goes against one of the core principles rallying (canadian rally anyway), of encouraging competition in production vehicles. If there's only 2 classes, then there will be no more production vehicles. |
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Title: Re: Two classes only? Post by jgardhouse on 12/23/9 at 12:33:48 4 Classes: Production 4WD Production 2WD Open 4WD Open 2WD Done. |
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Title: Re: Two classes only? Post by Robin_Fleguel on 12/23/9 at 13:37:15 I'm with Jamie. Four classes. |
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Title: Re: Two classes only? Post by Daniel_Buehler on 12/23/9 at 13:57:26 Okay, so I'll admit; I've never seen the appeal of running in production. From those who have, what makes it appealing? |
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Title: Re: Two classes only? Post by jgardhouse on 12/23/9 at 14:33:31 Daniel Buehler wrote on 12/23/9 at 13:57:26:
Its a heck of a lot of fun, great camaraderie, a fairly level playing field and very cost effective. When you can run a regional, entry, tires, fuel, food, transport to and from the event for under 500$ (Galway), the fun to negative cash flow ratio is something I can live with. Its rally, so its a pile of fun, no matter what you're riding in! And those who don't see the appeal of production classes because they're slow, one word: Spongl. |
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Title: Re: Two classes only? Post by overthehill on 12/23/9 at 15:51:57 My 2c worth: 1/ In my opinion it is all about trophies - and I do not see anything wrong with it. When you are old, you might have something else to look at than just your trusty TV. The wall full of trophies cannot be just dismissed as "you could buy it for $5 a piece". Win is a win, even if one is alone in a class. As one of my friends says about it: "History does not ask questions..." So, for the trophy, as well as for the good feeling and encouragement the winning provides, it might make sense to have more classes. 2/ I have a bit of issue with "production being cheaper that G2/G5/open class". Yes it is true--if you build a true G2/G5/open. However, the production class MUST be all production and G2 MIGHT, but does not but does not have to be a true G2. Which means that I can build a sturdier car for the same money or cheaper--if I choose to race a car which is close to being "production" in G2/G5/open class. I can go to a junk yard and pick up a transmission from any VW to put it into my “G2” car for $300. In the production class I have to have the same transmission as it was originally in the car. It might be much more difficult to get, not as sturdy and possibly more expensive. Obviously, one might have a huge problem to win with a "production" car in the open class, but for this argument see point (1) above. If one does not care about “fairly level playing field” (a difficult concept even if you have many classes), than it makes more sense to have just two classes. Furthermore, the open class is scalable – as I have more money I can increase the power of the car almost without limits. With a production car, I am at the limit almost from the beginning and to get any incremental improvement costs me more than to do the same with the production car in the G2/G5/open class. In the end, it is often the cost of going to events that overrides the car specification. For example, if I go to all CRC rallies (East and West), I would probably do quite well, even if I do not place great in any one of them. I am for two classes only, but it might be coloured by my perception that even in the full spec open class car I might not have any trophies anyways (to paraphrase Jamie; “one word: NoSprongl” ;D). |
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Title: Re: Two classes only? Post by Wedge on 12/23/9 at 17:28:40 Manufacturers love production class. Because they can point to those amazing rally cars and be able to say: "that's the same car you can buy from your local dealer" |
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Title: Re: Two classes only? Post by Dave Cotie on 12/23/9 at 22:22:41 Wedge1 wrote on 12/23/9 at 17:28:40:
Yes, but other than Subaru and Mitsubishi, who is stepping up? |
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Title: Re: Two classes only? Post by Phil D on 12/28/9 at 20:39:38 Agreed – put everybody into 2 classes; Production GT and Production Sport? Bin Open, G2, G5, etc???? As k yourself why all the manufactures are dropping out of WRC? It is just too darn expensive and that applies at our level too! And while we’re on look at environmental issues too; Pacific Forrest Rally had a fuel monitoring aspect to the event which the Zedrill’s won as well as their group. The writing is on the wall! Level the playing field(ish) and put everybody into GpN/production class cars and the smaller the capacity (2.0l) the better. |
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Title: Re: Two classes only? Post by Phil D on 01/16/10 at 09:27:01 Lots of support going to Production Sport south of the border! http://www.specialstage.com/2010/01/15/subaru-announces-increased-funding-for-their-2010-rally-support-program/ |
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Title: Re: Two classes only? Post by Wedge on 01/17/10 at 11:33:57 Dave Cotie wrote on 12/23/9 at 22:22:41:
Suzuki was out there _in production class_ running with the big dogs for a few years. Other manufacturers have shown interest from time to time. I'm sure that what's keeping them out is cost more than anything else. I like the idea of 4 classes: 2wd Prod, 2wd Open, 4wd Prod, 4wd Open But with classes like that, the low powered 4wd's would be screwed... What about the Justy's? Won't somebody please think of the Justy's!?! |
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