MLRC Forum - Print Page

MLRC Forum
https://www.mlrc.ca/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl
General >> Rally >> New To The Game
https://www.mlrc.ca/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1264045850

Message started by Crazy on 01/20/10 at 22:50:50

Title: New To The Game
Post by Crazy on 01/20/10 at 22:50:50

Hi everyone. I’m sorry if I’m asking questions that have already been answered. I’m just getting in to the whole rally racing and I had a couple of questions that I would like to ask to a more experienced crowd would actually do the sport, Vs the people that watch it on Youtube and think they know everything. So first of all, I am hoping to participate in the January 25 Mini Rally race (100km), that’s being held in Bradford, Ontario. I am planning to use my everyday driver and my only car that I own. (2004 Mitsubishi Ralliart) Since I’ve never done this before, I have no idea how bad the road conditions are and how much damage it will do to my car. Could anyone people give me an idea? Chipped paint? Dented doors? Half of my car missing by the end out the race? The next thing I would like to ask is does anyone know what I should be expecting? Like are the courses usually half dirt, half pavement? Or All pavement? And the last thing I would ask for is could someone please recommend a decent tire that will do a good job. It doesn’t have to be the best tire in the world. I just want to start small. Thanks for the help.

Title: Re: New To The Game
Post by Dave Cotie on 01/20/10 at 23:37:49

The Mini-Rallies are TSD (Time, Speed, Distance) or navigational rallies. They are NOT RACES! The max speed allowed is always at least 10% under the actual speed limit.

I have not entered one before, however it is my understanding that you can use your daily-driver and it should be just fine. It should not be damaged unless you run into something.

Tires - make sure you have snow tires. Even cheapies are better than all-seasons. Canadian Tire Nordics have worked well for me. I currently run Michelin X-Ice, good on ice, not great in snow.

Title: Re: New To The Game
Post by Crazy on 01/21/10 at 00:02:37

Sorry, your right. I should have used the word event. And thanks for your input about the X-icings. I would have thought that thoughs tires would be the number one choice. Anyone else use somethign different that also works good.

Title: Re: New To The Game
Post by Anthony_T on 01/21/10 at 00:23:58

Just to confirm what Dave has said - from someone who has participated in the Minis - The courses are chosen knowing that people use their daily drivers. There is no door to door contact or anything remotely close to that. It's a fun drive in the country on some windy roads with average speeds to meet - the trick is that managing to keep to those average speeds is easier said then done.

Title: Re: New To The Game
Post by Jeannie on 01/21/10 at 10:44:54

This is a busy weekend! We're also holding our first Open Road Rally of the season on Saturday, with start/finish in Almonte.

Re your question about cars, we get all sorts, including one team that has campaigned a rally van for years!

And, there is indeed *no* racing involved in a TSD.

Jeannie, MCO

Title: Re: New To The Game
Post by Crazy on 01/21/10 at 15:59:37

Awsome. Im glad that I can take part without worrying about my car getting all beat up. Thanks again. Can someone give me some input about some tires that they found worked for them? On gravel and on pavment?

Title: Re: New To The Game
Post by Anthony_T on 01/21/10 at 17:46:29

In basic terms, for TSD rallies in the winter - If you have a decent set of winter tires with sipes you should be good. The more sipes the better for icy conditions. A very upright tread block at the sidewall is also a good thing to look for. I don't like to use a studable tire if I won't be using studs as the rubber seems a bit harder then that used in a studless tires.

I'll leave the gravel/pavement question to someone else (what works well on one, won't on another)

Title: Re: New To The Game
Post by Crazy on 01/21/10 at 18:22:31

awsome, thanks for all the help

Title: Re: New To The Game
Post by nhibbert on 01/21/10 at 19:14:53

The mini's are probably 50/50 pavement and gravel. In that area there will probably still be a lot of packed snow on the back roads so you may not be able to tell the difference . . . unless it all washes away on Sunday.

My current favourite wnter tire right now is the Toyo Garit KX.

Title: Re: New To The Game
Post by Dave Cotie on 01/21/10 at 20:59:59

I have hear the Khumo Winter tires are good and the Hankook I-Pikes are supposed to be good too.

Title: Re: New To The Game
Post by Anthony_T on 01/21/10 at 22:33:35

I heard the same of the Kumho winter tires - I had some a long ways back that were but I have to say I was disappointed with my last set. I've been much happier since I switched to some Yokohama IG10s. I am going to save the Kumhos for the Peanut.

Title: Re: New To The Game
Post by rosswood on 01/21/10 at 23:30:55

For winter tires I have on different vehicles Michelin Arctic Claw (excellent snow and slush tire), Michelin X-Ice (excellent ice, good snow, very stable on pavement) , Kumho KW19 (excellent snow tire - a bit squishy on pavement) and Toyo GO2 (excellent snow tire, firm on pavement).

No tire is good at everything. You have to pick what best suits your needs. I think a good all-round winter tire at a reasonable price is Canadian Tire's Nordic winter tire, but all the tires listed above other than the Michelin X-Ice's were only slightly more than the Nordic - you just have to shop around.

Title: Re: New To The Game
Post by Crazy on 01/22/10 at 13:29:03

thanks alot again for all the help guys.

Title: Re: New To The Game
Post by Dave Cotie on 01/22/10 at 15:06:19

rosswood wrote on 01/21/10 at 23:30:55:

I think the point Ross is making here is a good one. I am (and probably Ross too) looking for a tire that has better traction in snow. That is why I have been looking to replace my X-Ice tires (they are on there last winter). I really like the look of the I-Pikes or the KW-19s.

People who live in more southern areas probably want more of an ice tire.

Title: Re: New To The Game
Post by jgardhouse on 01/22/10 at 20:24:03

Dave Cotie wrote on 01/22/10 at 15:06:19:

Dave,

We're on our third B5 Passat. I'd call you a fool for running anything other then Yokohama iG-20's. Just think of it as we did the testing!

And they're well priced!

Title: Re: New To The Game
Post by jgardhouse on 01/22/10 at 20:28:32

rosswood wrote on 01/21/10 at 23:30:55:

No tire is good at everything. You have to pick what best suits your needs. I think a good all-round winter tire at a reasonable price is Canadian Tire's Nordic winter tire, but all the tires listed above other than the Michelin X-Ice's were only slightly more than the Nordic - you just have to shop around.

Yokohama iG-20!

Ice? Check.
Snow? Check.
Slush? Check.
401 in the summer? Check.
Winter rallycross? Check.
Summer rallycross? Check.

And that was all on one set!

Three winters plus a summer (since the tires were still safe and I did my fair share rallycross and reccee in the car over the summer) on one set of tires.

Title: Re: New To The Game
Post by Dave Cotie on 01/22/10 at 22:16:54

j_gardhouse wrote on 01/22/10 at 20:28:32:

rosswood wrote on 01/21/10 at 23:30:55:

That is good to know Jamie, because frankly I have not been that impressed with the life I am getting out of the Michelins. This is their 3rd winter and they are DONE. I am not sure that I am even going to get to the end. I may have to swap the all-seasons back on before the end of winter.

I have always taken my snows off before it gets too warm and have not abused them.

Title: Re: New To The Game
Post by jgardhouse on 01/22/10 at 23:07:05

Unfortunately, running snow tires in Toronto means running snows on dry tarmac 50% >:( of the time (but we're always going up north, so its not an option). We're pretty abusive towards our tires, too.

Title: Re: New To The Game
Post by Crazy on 01/22/10 at 23:34:28

jgardhouse, is this while driving mostly in the GTA on that set of tires? Or is it more of up north kind of weather like lots of snow and gravel? Because if they last long all year round and you do a lot of driving on pavemnt and such, im going to go buy a set of those tires tomorrow.

Title: Re: New To The Game
Post by jgardhouse on 01/23/10 at 12:11:35

We've been getting about 3 winters, then after the final winter I will just run them all summer - they're not too noisy, handle fine and are still plenty safe to use (some people would use them for another winter). Winter tires are usually on from November to April, everything from dry tarmac in toronto to plowing the snow out with your front bumper in North Bay.

I've driven through the peanut and ran three rallycrosses in a 3xxx pound vw passat on iG-10/20s no flats, no bulges, no problem. I'd call that a torture test.

The ONLY downside to the iG-10/20's is that they use a crap load of release agent when they make them. So, what you NEED to do is when you get the tires first mounted, find a parking lot and do a few burn outs / donuts (if you're FWD). The release agent will wear off in 500k of driving on dry tarmac, but it wont wear off in ice/snow. So go squeak some tires in a parking lot and you're good.

Title: Re: New To The Game
Post by Crazy on 01/23/10 at 12:24:24

Oh man, that's not problem to me. Thanks for the heads up. How much does a set usually cost? and from were?

Title: Re: New To The Game
Post by nhibbert on 01/23/10 at 20:05:46

j_gardhouse wrote on 01/22/10 at 20:28:32:

rosswood wrote on 01/21/10 at 23:30:55:

Jamie

I've got IG20's on my Forester and Toyo Garit HT's on my wife's Hyundai and frankly I wish it was the other way around. While the IG20's are good the Garit's are better, particularly the lateral contol (i.e. cornering) on ice. The Garit's are basically an H-rated version of the GO2's Ross listed. Better on the highway but not quite as good on the snow. For city/highway/icy road driving the Garit's would be my choice.

Edit: having said that most of the top finishing cars at the January RX were on IG20's.

Title: Re: New To The Game
Post by Slowpoke on 01/24/10 at 11:36:26

Money no object, I think I have the best winter option at the moment: Blizzak WS-60's with cuts. But these won't last one summer, so they'll be off in early April. Very squirmy on dry tarmac, but I don't mind that for how they do on snow and ice. I also won't swap them in for gravel... too soft. But our summer gravel rallies don't really need specialized tires.

Trevor uses Hankook iPike 409's in winter and mounts them for rallies in the summer because he runs track R-comps (Toyo R-1-R's) as daily driving summer tires. He's happy with them. This is the best economical option, I think.

Title: Re: New To The Game
Post by jgardhouse on 01/24/10 at 15:50:59

Slowpoke wrote on 01/24/10 at 11:36:26:

I agree 110%.

If I lived in North Bay, I'd probably run WS-60's. With street studs. Living in Toronto, they're just too soft for dry roads and warmer (-5 to 5 deg).

They're also a bit too soft for if you're rallyx'ing on a chewed up winter track and end up with some dirt/gravel with the snow.