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MLRC Forum
https://www.mlrc.ca/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl General >> Rally >> starter car https://www.mlrc.ca/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1268446231 Message started by Razzy on 03/12/10 at 21:10:31 |
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Title: starter car Post by Razzy on 03/12/10 at 21:10:31 Hi guys, I am looking into getting into rally racing. I was wondering what sort of car I should start with. I was told to look at a Golf GTI or something small not to much power, 2-wheel drive. a 98-02 subaru impreza rs also caught my eye. my price range is 5-6grand. any suggestions? |
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Title: Re: starter car Post by dtompsett on 03/12/10 at 22:07:09 5-6grand before or after building? You're gonna be hard-pressed to buy a car, put a cage in it, and prep it, for $5k. Much better off buying someone else's car. |
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Title: Re: starter car Post by Wedge on 03/13/10 at 01:31:57 $5-6K is tough, but doable. That's about what I built the Paseo for, if memory serves, it was definately <$6K fully prepped. Of course, that was 5 years ago, costs are higher now... Cages have more requiremetns, seats must now be FIA approved, more personal safety gear is required... etc. But a thrifty compeitor get still get started in the sport on a low budget. You just need to know the best things to spend money on, and the best things to save money on. |
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Title: Re: starter car Post by Donnie on 03/13/10 at 11:10:54 Rally is not for the financially faint of heart :) I looked at it from both sides building vs prepped(allegedly).Looked around quite a bit before i went the build route, and found "ALL" those cheap ones will cost you plenty just to get them up to spec/ and fully operational,and your still never really sure about motors/ drivetrains in them, and the safety equipment in most cases is expired or dam near it/that is even if its included in the deal.Now this is where the conversation gets interesting and I'm sure that if something was left out someone will add it.This was "MY" build, no one is the the same.Car(s) 600.00 on Kijiji, first things first "SAFETY AND E-TEST" the car prior to build, this is very important for obvious reasons.( Note: check compression prior to sale)now that aspect is out of the way, inspect every fuel/brake line, tank re/re anything questionable(think Rally think abuse) when inspecting, next up pull the head, get it checked and resurfaced if the leak test comes up good BONUS!!! interference engines love a new timing belt, (nowadays kits include a water pump too..) get rid of all the air conditioning stuff the while the head is out of the way,its also a good time to install that safety switch to shut 'Everything" down (see cars regs) i also took the opportunity to replace the clutch, and motor mounts while the head and all the crap was out of the way, took a long hard look at the rad and went aluminum(Tig vs Brass or plastic the decision was again obvious) At this point budget is at about $2000.00.Now to consider some safety equipment,( i need some rest :).The end result after a lot of research the damage was to the tune of $8766.20 this covered Hans, Helmets, Nomex suits, gloves, shoes, harnesses x2, seats x2, intercom amp, fire extinguishers, plus cage and installation.JRP/CSC were great to work with feel i was treated fairly.So here we are at $10,766.00,Now to consider Suspension & Brakes & Tires, went with K-Sport rally spec GR coilovers, (JRP) $1879.00, K-Sport has completely redesigned their rally spec line(Note: watch the production dates with these coilovers you want a production date after June 2009 there is a "Big" difference between the two in regard to the body size)With brakes i went with cross drilled vented Fronts, cross drilled rears/w Lightning pads,$200.00,while it was all apart i replaced every suspension bushing i could $250.00, boxed all control arms and links. First block of rally tires 15 total $2000.00,(won't be the last) Rally lights x2 pencil, x2 spread H1 130w $280.00 cdn from Australia( ABS housings but cheap plastic rings, i'll modify them to hold up) So in closing i don't think that this is a any more than a must need build at $15,185.00 + over 300+ man hrs.Again Rally is not for the financially faint of heart :) |
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Title: Re: starter car Post by Donnie on 03/13/10 at 15:14:11 And if your looking for a GTI, my fabricator has one its a 1991 no rot and 30k on a rebulid, its on the road now, drives it every day !!! 500.00.located in Newtonville, just east of Oshawa. |
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Title: Re: starter car Post by Donnie on 03/13/10 at 16:39:42 I failed to leave out another 1500.00 in incidentals, Comp License, first aid course :D |
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Title: Re: starter car Post by Razzy on 03/14/10 at 03:57:45 Is that GTI road worthy? I forgot to mention, I would like to use it on the road as well as a everyday car. is that possible? or do I have to get a 2nd car? an dedicate a car totally for track use only? also would like some input as to what car I should be looking at? whats the generic *starter* rally car? is it a GTI? a civic? a impreza? a celica? what would I be best off with? Also too. just an FYI, I have 2 very goo friends who are mechanics and an uncle that rebuilds cars. so labour will be cheap for me (yay!) |
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Title: Re: starter car Post by Yopofun on 03/14/10 at 11:05:38 Razzy wrote on 03/14/10 at 03:57:45:
If you've ever sat in a rally car, you'll quickly find out that its not something that you would want to use as a daily driver. Its more then possible, but as you'd be stripping everything out of the car, it would be very loud, the suspension would be stiff, and jumping through the roll cage would get annoying, not to mention driving around with a roll cage might gets the cops attention. Plus if you're going into rally races, they are extremely hard on the cars, and if you ditch your rally car around a corner, you're also ditching your daily driver... As for the generic starter rally car, golfs are pretty popular. There are quite a lot of them, so finding parts usually isn't an issue, and you can pick one up for fairly cheap :D The competition is a little more fair, as if you go into the all wheel drive cars, you can end up against the Subaru Sponsored teams :P |
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Title: Re: starter car Post by Razzy on 03/14/10 at 11:37:05 lol well considering what u've just told me. i think ill definatly have to buy a 2nd car. |
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Title: Re: starter car Post by Razzy on 03/14/10 at 21:22:07 where could I buy a rollcage? |
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Title: Re: starter car Post by Phil D on 03/20/10 at 14:20:25 Razzy, Donnie makes some really good points. I'd advise you to buy a built car (which hasn't been laid up for too long i.e. safety gear is in date) unless you have deep pockets! Without doubt the only way to really know a car is to build it from scratch. But if you just want to get started and need to stay within a finite budget, buying is usualy better. Keep watching MCO and SpecialStage classifieds. Good luck |
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Title: Re: starter car Post by solitude99 on 03/20/10 at 14:56:04 As someone going through this process now... we purchased the Lada before the holidays which is essentially turnkey expect that the belts and one seat need to be replaced by may. We figure we will spend at least $4000 plus car cost to get into our first competition in may... this includes the new belts, a new seat, 2 x suites, 2 x helmets, 2 x Hans, first aid course, physicals, race license, and other misc... This does not even take into account insurance.... Derek. |
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Title: Re: starter car Post by Donnie on 03/20/10 at 15:55:29 No intent to insult, but unless you intend on buying used 4k is a stretch, with vendors you need to be REAL firm, X2 Hans 1610.25, x2 G78 Peltor 1387.60 w/ post upgrade, x2 Leaf 5 point 550.00, x1 Sabelt racer duo 415.00, x2 Suits, gloves, shoes. 1116.00, C.A.R.S License x2 385.00. Then your first aid courses.These prices are tax in. |
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Title: Re: starter car Post by dtompsett on 03/20/10 at 17:54:48 There is a nice Scirocco starter car in the classifieds section... comes with lots of spares, and an engine swap to tinker with before putting in! ::) |
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Title: Re: starter car Post by solitude99 on 03/20/10 at 21:49:15 No insult, costs are costs... 4k is a rough estimates and reality is I have not really put taxes in my calcs for what we have not paid for... but I think we will be close... we spent the morning at CSC... and got/priced most of what we need... Derek. |
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Title: Re: starter car Post by Razzy on 03/20/10 at 23:30:02 No worries Donnie, im not insulted in any way. im a very easy going guy. I actually really appreciate the constructive criticism. You guys know alot more then I do (obviously lol :P ) I would love all tips, suggestions and comments that you can give me, as I am very interested in the community and I know nothing. I am eager to learn from you guys. I hope to meet you at the races and meetings as soon as I get my life a bit more stable! I will try to volunteer at as many races as I can so I can meet the community and learn from the veterans. Im only 21 but I love to learn and I absolutely love rally racing. I would like to thank all of you guys who posted on this thread so far for your help and suggestions. I'm going to buy that car off your fabricator donnie very soon. Im in the midst of moving, starting a new job and applying for the army! lol lots going on in my life! I figure I will use that vw for everyday driving until I can save up some more money to buy a used rally car and parts. or to convert that VW into a rally car. |
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Title: Re: starter car Post by Grant on 03/21/10 at 22:36:39 You may want to take a serious look at Rallycross before you jump into buying/preparing a Stage Rally car. It will give you a chance to speak with more experienced community members and check out their cars to see the differences between a street car and a fully prepared rally car. Its alot more then just throwing in a cage and adding some suspension... as Donnie said, theres so many man hours put into the building and maintanance of these cars its crazy. I just turned 19 and now have a Production class Lancer, and I'm definately glad I did a year of rallycross before buying a rallycar... you really learn alot, plus it will cost you a small fraction of the cost to run rallycross (ie. $60 to show up and race) instead of hundreds/thousands to run a stage rally event. Plus, you can do minimal prep work to your daily driver, rallycross it, then drive around town feeling like you own a rally machine 8-) |
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Title: Re: starter car Post by rosswood on 03/22/10 at 07:39:56 Razzy, you have been receiving excellent advice on this forum. I emphasize and support two of the points in particular - start with a used rally car and do a season of RallyCross. |
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Title: Re: starter car Post by Robin_Fleguel on 03/22/10 at 08:38:37 Donnie wrote on 03/20/10 at 15:55:29:
I'm not sure if being real firm with vendors is as important as shopping around a little bit, keeping your ear to the ground among current competitors and paying attention to the rulebook. To wit: Hot Bits has brand new *FIA-approved* with expiry after 2015 (as opposed to 2 years for SFI) 6-point cam lock HANS harnesses for $200CAD + taxes including eyebolts and clips. There is no requirement for shoes or gloves (yet) Robin |
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Title: Re: starter car Post by jgardhouse on 03/22/10 at 09:37:29 You can get G-Force FIA belts for under $175, taxes/shipping included. Either way, much more cost effective then Leaf/SFI belts. Moral of the story is: SHOP AROUND, and do your shopping WELL BEFORE the event they're needed for! If you just pick up the phone and call CSC/JRP/LEAF, you WILL waste money. |
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Title: Re: starter car Post by Robin_Fleguel on 03/22/10 at 11:32:25 j_gardhouse wrote on 03/22/10 at 09:37:29:
Cheapest price I can find for GForce are for their 5 point FIA, with no eyebolts or clips: belts $US149.99 clips $4x4 = $16 eyebolts $4x4 = $16 _________________ US total: $182 Today's actual bank or VISA rate on exchange (not what you read in the newspaper) = 1.04 Duty (GForce not made in N.America) = 1.061 Shipping = free... maybe Taxes 1.13 Brokerage fee (let's say you risk getting stuff stolen from Canada Post and we'll do the cheapest = $5) That's 185 x 1.04 x 1.061 x 1.13 + $5 Total CDN = $235 $175 shipped and taxed?? |
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Title: Re: starter car Post by Donnie on 03/22/10 at 12:03:48 LEAF LF-75052BK 5 Point x2 $510.00 Installed, And furthermore i was told by whoever was representing RSO at Canadian Motorsport Expo that nomex shoes and gloves we're in for 2010!!!! This was prior to to the release of the 2010 regs. |
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Title: Re: starter car Post by jgardhouse on 03/22/10 at 13:00:00 Good point. Price I paid (within the past year) did not include eyelets or snaps (both of which I had, so it worked out), but price inclusive of taxes still holds. $200 for FIA belts with snaps and eyelets is certainly not a price to sniffle at. Visiting HotBits in Brampton however, is much nicer then dealing with Canadapost/USPS/Customs, especially when they (customs) screw up! (and they will!) Either way, buy FIA. |
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Title: Re: starter car Post by corywannamaker on 03/22/10 at 15:58:40 I will agree with a couple of points on here. As someone who would love to build or buy a stage rally car I very quickly noticed that it is going to cost alot of money. It is not even the cost of the car and prep work etc. that has to be thought about but the running cost of that car. If you are racing a awd car for example the cost to maintain the car is going to be more than if you are using a 2wd car. Not to mention the cost of the race itself entry fees room food gas etc.etc.etc.etc. I personally started to run rallycross last year and quickly realized that in no way was I ready to get behind the wheel of a stage rally car and race, well atleast not be competitive. I have enjoyed the last season and a half in rallycross and it has taught me alot about prep, driving, repairing etc. I can understand wanting to jump right into stage rally however you can buy whatever car you want to drive every day to and from work school or whatever and then take it to a rallycross on the weekend talk hang out and learn without it costing you big $$$$. Just my 2 cents. |
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Title: Re: starter car Post by martin on 03/26/10 at 14:58:34 Robin_Fleguel wrote on 03/22/10 at 08:38:37:
Robin, do you have a link to these belts that Hotbits has? I searched and couldn't find anything. I need new belts before LHFR. Thanks...Martin. |
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Title: Re: starter car Post by jgardhouse on 03/26/10 at 16:23:42 Martin - here is another of Robin's posts with more details and contact info: Quote:
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Title: Re: starter car Post by Robin_Fleguel on 03/29/10 at 20:00:16 Quote:
Hi Martin, Peter will be bringing some to Shannonville and to Lanark for sale/looksie. You can also check with Tonik - they'll be dealing them and I think Warren has a couple sets now. Robin |
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