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T'is the season... (Read 23166 times)
dtompsett
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Re: T'is the season...
Reply #30 - 12/28/4 at 16:18:12
 
right now, the time allowance thing only seems to be an MCO thing.

One of the things they do on winter rallies to speed up the night is change up the break.  If you arrive on time to the break, you get your full time, but if you arrive late, you leave on car zero out time + your car in #......  could leave you with 5 minutes to take a break, fill up with gas, and get out of there.
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Nikola
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Re: T'is the season...
Reply #31 - 12/28/4 at 16:31:05
 
hmm, guess we'll just have to be on time then! :>

Ian Law is organizing two winter schools before January 22nd, so that eases my worries a fair bit - some quality practice time Smiley

Btw, what about ABS & Air Bags? Are people going to be disabling these (and I will in no way hold the response a legally binding recommendation etc etc...Smiley)? The ABS can get quite annoying (and counter-productive) in deep snow, and I'm wondering if Air Bags might go off when hitting a snow bank (as I have side as well as front airbags)...
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C. Hamm
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Re: T'is the season...
Reply #32 - 12/28/4 at 17:45:35
 
Where is there a link for this driving school?

(MCO is offering 4 or 5 full-day courses ($150), 1-2 instructor-student ratio, and tons of seat time on a great clsoed course.)
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Wedge1
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Re: T'is the season...
Reply #33 - 12/28/4 at 18:22:06
 
C. Hamm wrote on 12/28/4 at 17:45:35:
Where is there a link for this driving school?

(MCO is offering 4 or 5 full-day courses ($150), 1-2 instructor-student ratio, and tons of seat time on a great clsoed course.)


http://www.carcontrolschool.com/

One of my buddies is an instructor there.
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Nikola
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Re: T'is the season...
Reply #34 - 12/28/4 at 19:15:18
 
Heh... I'd really love to take advantage of the MCO schools - but being 450km away, this is just not practical at this juncture I'm afraid. Sad
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dtompsett
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Re: T'is the season...
Reply #35 - 12/29/4 at 00:45:02
 
Nikola wrote on 12/28/4 at 16:31:05:
Btw, what about ABS & Air Bags? Are people going to be disabling these (and I will in no way hold the response a legally binding recommendation etc etc...Smiley)? The ABS can get quite annoying (and counter-productive) in deep snow, and I'm wondering if Air Bags might go off when hitting a snow bank (as I have side as well as front airbags)...


Well, I'm not worried about airbags, as I don't have any.... its something to consider....  Typically there is no easy way to disable the airbags in road cars.... on some, removing the fuse doesn't guarantee they won't engage, as some systems have backup capacitors built in (just what i've heard).  So, you hit a snowbank with the airbags disabled, do either no damage or just a little bit, and they don't engage.... no problem.  You really off, and hit a tree with airbags disabled... lets not go there!    I guess i'd rather not have them go off if I hit a snowbank a little hard.... even if it does damage the front end.  The cost of replacement is gonna hurt just as much as your shoulder from the seatbelt burns!

As for ABS.... i'm still undecided on this one.  Me, I have the advantage of push-button abs disabling in the audi.... came from the factory with the button on the dash to disable ABS on the fly.  Perhaps there is a way to easily enable/disable the ABS, rather than getting out to pull/install a fuse.  Maybe some wire leads (with a fuse installed for safety) running to a switch mounted inside... a flick of the switch will turn it on or off.
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C. Hamm
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Re: T'is the season...
Reply #36 - 12/29/4 at 11:17:07
 
One day you do the winter driving school, the next day you can compete on the same course in the "Slush n Slide" which is run "like" a rallycross, more or less.  But, it is a bit of a drive.  It's sort of how we feel in Ottawa when RSO puts on the navigational school in the GTA, on weeknights.

http://www.mco.org/app/skidschool.asp

I believe MCO is the only club that offers this type of school.  Students have included the Govenor General's drivers.
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Re: T'is the season...
Reply #37 - 12/29/4 at 17:19:40
 
ah, that last pic of the white legacy in the ditch is mine Roll Eyes

...Over a crest doing about 80ish and on the other side is a short downhill into a very tight right... managed to get the car turned via the e-brake but was carrying too much speed and hung the back end out into the snow bank which eventually spun the car back around the other way... took out at least 30ft of snowbank with the passenger side door (now dented)... can't wait to do it again this year Cheesy

Already signed up for this years event... hope to see you all there

Happy holidays

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Re: T'is the season...
Reply #38 - 01/16/5 at 21:34:39
 
Quote:
If you (or anybody else) have any other/longer vids from previous events, us newbies who have no clue what to expect would really appreciate it!

Okay, here's a 2-minute video clip. It's not highly dramatic, but there is a lot of educational stuff happening here that newbies might find interesting or maybe even useful.

SOWR2004-1.wmv (7.4MB)

The first unusual thing is that we're following another car.  Normally, if everyone is running on time spaced one minute apart, you could go the whole night without ever seeing another car, except at checkpoints.  For some mysterious reason Martin & Ken ahead of us departed from the last checkpoint on the same minute as we did.  I know we're okay.  We checked it twenty times.  And I doubt Martin & Ken screwed up.  They don't make errors like that.  So maybe the checkpoint crew mistakenly assigned us both the same time out.

Please note:  We are *** NOT *** racing each other!  Definitely, NOT racing!

Also note, we are *** NOT *** breaking the 80 km/h speed limit.  You can see my speedometer throughout this video clip.  Straight up on the dial would be 120km/h.  The gauge is marked in increments of 20 km/h.  We never go over 80.

I'm happy to just follow behind these guys because it's an advantage to have someone competent leading the way.  I can watch their brake lights to get an idea of what's coming up.  They're not holding us up at all, and we're confident that we're running right on time, so I have no intention of trying to pass them.   If anything, I suspect it's those guys who are a minute behind their correct time slot and I don't want to get in Martin's way if they suddenly wake up and realize that.

The video starts as we turn left at km 125.7 and Commence Average Speed (CAS) 63.6 km/h.  If you just want to finish the event and don't care how well you score, then you should completely ignore the target speeds and just concentrate on not falling off the road anywhere or getting lost.  You're NOT going to be able to go a constant 63.6 km/h over every blind hill or around every corner.  Use the straights when it's safe to do so, and slow down if you're not sure what's coming up.

When closely following another car like this, visibility becomes an issue.  There's blowing snow to contend with.  Also I'm reluctant to use my high beams when running this close behind Martin because I don't want to blind him.  But if I back off too much to open a gap between us, I lose the benefit of his high beams, and I find I really need to use my own.  Because I'm too distracted trying to establish the correct gap, I promptly forget what speed I'm supposed to be doing.

Then I see Martin's car bash through a big frost heave, which gives me enough warning to slow for it.  But now I've not only forgotten what speed I'm supposed to be doing, I also didn't hear what the next route instruction was.  At this point Christoph, my excellent navigator, has already TWICE told me those two bits of info.  Hey, it's 4  in the morning and I'm concentrating on driving here, eh.

So Christoph has to tell me for a THIRD time that we're supposed to be doing CAS 63.6, and we're looking for a 'Keep LEFT' at 126.2 km.

And right there is a perfect example of another problem.  We're running with only the vehicle's stock trip odometer which, compared to the bright headlights shining on snowbanks, is only dimly illuminated in my instrument panel and barely legible.  Christoph cannot see the odo at all from the right seat.  So I have to take my eyes off the road to squint down at the odo for a couple of seconds every now and then to try and get a reading.  Often there's no time to look away from the road, so we sometimes lose track of the mileage.  After this event we bought a rally computer so Christoph is able to read the mileage for us.  It makes an enormous difference!

When it finally clicks in my tired brain that I'm supposed to be watching for km 126.2, I don't have enough time to look down because we're in the middle of a corner.  Unfortunately this corner already is the 'Keep LEFT' that I was supposed to be watching for.

Christoph is patiently waiting to for me to tell him that we've passed this mileage so he can feed me the next route instruction.  Therefore it's not at all his fault that he didn't warn me about the "CAUTION! - Acute LEFT at bottom of Hill" that closely follows this next downhill right, which suddenly tightens and gets much steeper halfway around the corner...   As a result, I have a small panic moment where I need to grab the handbrake to keep the car from understeering straight off.  [cont'd...]
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Ferdinand
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Re: T'is the season...
Reply #39 - 01/16/5 at 21:38:13
 
This lesson demonstrates how it's the driver's responsibility to drive within his own limits at ALL times.  Regardless of what the navigator does or doesn't tell you to do, if you cannot see over the hill or around the corner, SLOW DOWN!  In this case, it helped a lot that I saw Martin's brake lights come on ahead of me.  Still, it was an interesting moment.  It looks like Martin was somewhat surprised too and almost didn't make the acute left turn.

Finally I get a chance to take a quick peek at the odometer to inform Christoph that we're now at mileage 126.6, well past the 'Keep LEFT' he's been waiting for.  In response to this bit of news, my incredibly calm, cool, and unruffled 15 year old son merely says, "Really?"

Armed with this new information he warns me, only just barely in time, that we're coming into yet another 'CAUTION! - Downhill Hard Right'...  You'll notice the handbrake light briefly comes on again to help me get the nose of the car turned in.

Following these two 'surprise' CAUTION! curves, Christoph and I have a little discussion to figure out what the heck just happened there.  That's also not a good thing to do.  I should be concentrating on getting the average speed back up.

My car has a stock trip computer that can display our calculated average speed.  It's the orange display in the bottom centre of the screen.  It's a hugely useful tool.  I zeroed that at the beginning of this CAS 63.3 section.  Had we been able to stay at 80 on all the straights, instead of slowing for the big frost heave, then fumbling our way through those surprise tight corners, and now wasting even more time discussing our mistakes, we should have been pretty close to the correct average speed.  As it is, Christoph eventually winds up his explanation with yet another reminder to me that we're supposed to be doing 63.6 km/h.  If you squint at the display, you might to able to make out that it's currently reading only about 47 or 48 km/h avg.  Time to pick up the pace.

But, the next route instruction is already coming up at the bottom of a long downhill straight.  There we have to Yield, go straight through, and change to a new average speed.

If this was a WRC rally, and you're Colin McRae, you might blast down this hill at top speed and blow straight through the yield sign to make up time.  But it's not like that.  These are open public roads.  You HAVE to obey the laws.

If I booted it down this hill, I may not be able to stop on the slippery snow and ice **IF** someone actually came along at that moment and I was forced to yield.  I'm not even doing the maximum legal 80 km/h down the hill.  Watch my speedo.  The speed drops off to just under 60, and I dim my high beams to make absolutely certain nobody else is coming along on that other road, before driving past the yield sign and through the intersection.

At that point my avg speed display shows we only managed to do an avg of 52 km/h over this section.  If you feel like checking the math [Martin and Ken actually calculate this stuff on the fly!], this section started at km 125.7, ended at km 127.4, and at CAS 63.6 should have taken us roughly 1 minute and 36 seconds.  If you run a stop watch against this video clip you'll see at our actual average speed of 52 km/h it took us 1 minute and 58 seconds.  The cumulative effect of all our mistakes [all MY mistakes actually] caused us to fall 22 seconds behind schedule in this short section alone.

We bumbled along like this all night long for 500 kms and still finished 17th overall and first in Novice.  Martin and Ken, and several other teams, would certainly have finished higher than us, had they not later blown several minutes digging themselves out of a snowbank...
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dtompsett
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Re: T'is the season...
Reply #40 - 01/17/5 at 02:13:40
 
Wow Ferdinand.... that is an awesome little video... good tool to show people the conditions we drive under.
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Re: T'is the season...
Reply #41 - 01/17/5 at 23:46:42
 
Yep, sure reminds you how important it is to look through the book and highlight anything that comes immediately after the previous instructions. That way, I'll give distance for the first instruction, and say "immediately into xyz" and not bother to give the actual distance unless my driver asks. Of course, when I'm driving these events, I generally do odo calcs in my head unless they're really bad. No rally odo for me yet, I don't drive enough to warrant it. Ah well...
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Ryan Huber
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