At a recent rally, a car experienced mechanical problems at the out control at a start of a leg.  The car was pushed out of the control and then loaded unto a trailer and transported to just before the in control at the next service (there were no stages in between - just a long transit).  The car was off loaded and pushed into the in control and then into service where it was fixed and successfully rejoined the rally under its own power.

Is this allowed under the rules ?

Beyond this specific situtuaion, I can see other situations - such as after the last stage of a leg where there is a long transit either to the end of the rally or a leg, that bringing a trailer to the end of the stage and loading the car unto it for transport to the end could be advantageous.

There seems to me there are issues here other than just rules but I would like to know if the rules allow this.  If so, I would be curious as to the rationale if anyone has any knowledge of this ?

hi guys, have been coming on this forum for a long time usely to get pics but today i will actuly post since you are talking about our crew .

I dont actuly know if what we have done is legal or not but i thinks the rule said that the car have to get in and out of control on is own power or push by one of is crew member (driver or co-driver ) during the transit i thinks that you can be pull , tow or push it dosent matters .

I also know that Yohan Tessier the coupe du quebec champion was disqualified after winning the RALLYE DES DRAVEURS in august in maniwaki after another compeditor pull him into control whit the tow rope if he hade push is car into control by himself it would been ok
i thinks

Anyway my brother and i where expecting a protsest but it never came so we have won the p-1 class and  the important part we have finish our close to home rallye

sorry for the bad english i do my best see you all at the tall pine in november

Julien Cloutier
Co-Driver
AJC RALLYE

Ultimately, it's up to the competitors there to protest if something happens they feel is against the rules. If nobody did, and the results are declared final, well, then that's that. Ultimately, it's my opinion that we never should have done that transit in the rallycars anyways, but that's just me.

In some cases (and I don't know if this is one), it's not so much a question of having other competitors protest, as of having an official see the particular act and rule on it.

I did some looking around in the CARS rulebook. The only thing I could find related to service crews was on p. B-43. And here, we're discussing trailering a car during a transit, which is considered to be part of a rally.

So:
8. Service is defined as work carried out on the car by any person other than the competing crew, or the use or receipt by the crew of any manufactured materials (solid or liquid), spare parts, tools or equipment other than those carried in the competing car, etc.

9. All service shall be confined to official service parks.

I checked this because I wanted to understand the circumstances better. Since everyone else drove their car on the transit, and the supp regs did not say teams could trailer their cars on the transit, I'm assuming this was against the rules. However, either a competitor had to protest or an official had to observe and act on what he or she saw.

This was our first time at Defi, so a lot of things were new.

If anyone is better informed, and can find a more applicable regulation, feel free to add your comments. I'm still a novice.

Jeannie

Jeannie VE3JNE wrote on 09/22/5 at 17:05:17:

You can't enforce what the rules don't say.  They don't say you can't smoke cigars on transits. Is it therefore wrong to smoke cigars on transits?

I don't know, it's not 110% clear to me that #8 was violated.  The trailer didn't augment the car, as a part, not did it receive fluids (I trust), so what was provided was passage, not 'service.' However, 'work carried out on the car' might possibly include fastening the car down to the trailer, for example, which is then service outside of an 'official service park'.  

Maybe the organisers need an Observation Control somewhere on the transit to catch cars on trailers if they don't want that, or maybe marshals at Defi need to be more diligent of cars arriving to the start control on trailers.

The above comments certainly seem germane to me.

Craig, re what I cited:
8. Service is defined as work carried out on the car by any person other than the competing crew, OR THE USE OR RECEIPT BY THE CREW OF ANY MANUFACTURED MATERIALS (solid or liquid), SPARE PARTS, TOOLS OR EQUIPMENT other than those carried in the competing car, etc.

I think a trailer (= equipment) would be included in that definition.

I'd be interested to hear what some officials have to say (and will probably ask some of them privately).

Jean

I am glad that Craig has reached the same conclusion.

So what happens now ?

With these points which it is agreed they aren't entitled to, this team moved into a a tie and took away the Ontario P1 Championship from Ian Crerar and Georges Lavoie.  Now Crerar and Lavoie have to beat this team at Tall Pines to win.  This isn't right, fair, reasonable nor should it be acceptable.  It also demeans the competitors involved and the CARS and Ontario Championships and the Rallye Defi.

As an interesting and related point, Crerar and Lavoie suffered mechanical failure in one of the stages Friday night. They were hauled back to service where they fixed the problem but were properly denied a restart and were DNF'd.  The rules were properly applied in their case.

John:

I agree with you to a point too.  In the same circumstances I would have taken the car to service and attempted to fix it.  If it was not fixable, then there would have been no need for any further discussion - the DNF would take place.

On the other hand, as in this situation, if through good luck, good work, whatever, the car was adequately repaired, then I think it would be appropriate then to ask for a clarification of the rules before continuing.  For a number of reasons - this is the honest thing to do for one.  Additionally, what sense does it make to continue to punish the car and risk life and limb for the Saturday stages only to be correctly DNF'f at the end ?

The attitude thst they got away with it, congratulations, I really question.  At some point we all have to be responsible for our own actions.  Flagrantly breaking rules to beat out other competitors should not be acceptable.  Other competitors should not be forced into situations where they have to protest if the matter is such a cut and dry situation as this one.

I do agree with your suggestion that this needs to be considered in some way in the future to lessen the likelihood of the same thing happening again.

I don't think that you are 100% correct either in saying that there is no recourse at this time.