Hello all,

I have been a rally fan for quite a few years now, and have attended the Rally of the Tall Pines in Bancroft for the past 3.  I've always been a car enthusiast in general and have recently been considering a foray into some amateur rallycross.  

For the past few years I've been working on and modifying an Eagle Talon TSi AWD, and although they can be costly and unreliable at times, figured it might be a good base to start with for a rally-only vehicle.  

My main questions are regarding the availability of amateur rallycross competition and the rules/governing bodies.  I've been searching for as many Canadian (and more specifically Ontario) rally sites as possible and there are a significant amount.  However, I haven't been able to find much information on where a beginner to the sport can go to learn and compete against other people with similar skill levels.  The only events I usually see listed are those on a professional level.  Is there somewhere specific that I can go to find more beginner oriented events?  (For Reference, I'm close to Belleville, Ontario.  Have a cottage in Madoc, which is close to Bancroft and am only about an hour from Peterborough)

The other question I have is regarding the rules of most rallycross competitions.  In amateur classes are there weight restrictions and restrictions on the modifications that are allowed to your vehicle?  I've been playing around with the idea of creating my own custom tubular control arms/etc. and wasn't sure if modifications like this would be allowed.

Thanks in advance for all responses.

Edit:  I just now noticed the Four Star Motorsports Rallycross series in Bancroft.  This might be a good place for a first-timer from the sounds of it.  Is there anywhere with a list of event dates in the series?

-Steve

Thanks for the reply John, it's appreciated.  I've been going over that portion of the site for the last little while, reading almost everything.  From what I can see the next RallyX is Oct. 16th?  Unfortunately I doubt I'll be able to make it out for that event, as I have recently put the Talon on blocks to complete some work and don't anticipate it being finished until after the winter months.  But I will definitely keep my eyes on that site and take you up on the offer to talk my ears off concerning rally and getting into the sport next time there's an event I'm able to attend.

TSD's don't seem to be for me, not enough action, but these RallyX events seem like they're exactly what I'm looking for.  These events in particular don't seem to have any specific rules against any modifications unless it renders your car unsafe or illegal for street driving, is this correct?

I'm thinking about purchasing a seperate car to begin work on as a rally car.  (I'm real big on building/modifying things myself as the results are much more satisfying this way).  I have access to welders, pipe benders, presses, shears, etc.  and am pretty capable of doing whatever I need, just sometimes like to take my time doing so.  I would guess that it will be quite some time before I undertake the project since I'm not yet done the modification of the daily-driver Talon, but once this is complete I'll more than likely bring it up to Bancroft and either watch or take part in the RallyX's!

Thanks again,
-Steve

MackDSM wrote on 09/30/5 at 15:43:33:


Uh oh, just wait until Craig H. sees this!  

Jeannie

Steve, trust me, even normal TSD's are good fun.  Winter ones or lanark highlands are a totally different story as well, they are amazingly fun.  I started doing TSD's THEN rallyx, now performance rally and I definitely feel that doing those TSD's served me well

To put it in perspective, Steve, for Lanark Highlands, we get teams coming up from the northern U.S. and from various parts of Ontario. Some of these teams are performance rally teams (meaning they know a good event when they see one), and some have also been to Targa Newfoundland. This event, and the winter ones, are restricted to those who have already demonstrated their capabilities.

Rallycross is a good place to start, especially if John is willing to talk your ear off! But don't dismiss TSD's out of hand. You need to develop your skills and that's a good way to start.

Jeannie

Without boring you to tears, TSD's are in two general categories: drivex and navex. The latter require good navigating skills, and the driving is somewhat secondary. In drivexes, driving is paramount and the navigator tries his or her best to keep their stomach calm as they travel up and down hills, around corners, etc. at a brisk pace. I think most rallyists would say that drivexes are the best.

The various clubs put on rallies. I live in the Ottawa area and the rally group I am most involved with runs events in Lanark Highlands and beyond. Our most successful is the Lanark Highlands Rally, run every October since 2000. It is also our annual give-back-to-the-community rally, and usually we collect food for one of the local food banks.

You would have to check out the club(s) closest to where you live to see what their schedule is. But a good event will draw people from quite a distance. We have one team confirmed for Lanark Higlands, coming up from the U.S.

You can check out www.mco.org, and look at the Rally forum if you want more info. And don't forget MLRC, PMSC and KWRC!

Hope this helps a little.

Jean

Whoa, where have I been!?

Quoting from Monty Python's Holy Grail:
TIM: I warned you! But did you listen to me? Oh, no, you knew it all, didn't you? Oh, it's just a harmless little bunny, isn't it? Well, it's always the same, I always--
ARTHUR: Oh, shut up!
TIM: --But do they listen to me?--
ARTHUR: Right!
TIM: -Oh, no--
KNIGHTS: Charge!
[squeak squeak]
KNIGHTS: Aaaaugh! Aaaugh! etc.
KNIGHTS: Run away! Run away!
TIM: Haw haw haw. Haw haw haw. Haw haw.
(http://www.rit.edu/~smo4215/monty.htm#Scene%2021)

Yeah, well, hee hee, you wouldn't be allowed in the Lanark, except as a navigator or a volunteer.   Try one of them winter events, and wear your diapers!  You'll get 'educated' inside of 25 km.

Certainly, not all TSD rallyists are 'into' these 'hardcore' drivexes, many prefer the challenge of a good, slower, navex.  They can be frustrating at times, but I can tell you, they are a real fun, and if nothing else really get you into the 'press on regardless' mode of operation at times, something that would serve you as a stage rally competitor in the future.  

Rallying covers a broad spectrum of styles and challenges, but they are all related, and my belief is that dismissing  any part of the rally spectrum, especially before having tried it (!) is not a valid approach.  Guys like John V., Ryan H., etc., and countless others worked hard at winning navigational championships, putting in a LOT of road miles to gain rally experience on the cheap.  You know, between rally stages, it's a little like a TSD, even for those WRC fellows.  So, best not to get lost on your first performance rally 'cause you couldn't read a simple routebook, or didn't understand some simple abbreviations.  The now defunct OVAC club, organised some "TSD" rallies around Silver Lake (where the Lanark runs out of), and guess what, they went on to organise the 74 Rideau Lakes (a "WRC" event!!).

Here in Ottawa, more than once, I've heard the same thing from newbies.  TSD, too slow, boring, bleah bleah bleah. They do their first rally, a winter drivex (one that we ran that I wouldn't even consider very brisk or technical) and they withdrew just after the halfway mark, and I never saw them ever again. It was too much for them.

Well, I could keep rambling on an on, but maybe you get where I'm going with all this.  Hope to see you out to some TSDs!

Craig
Organiser,
Lanark Highlands Rally (it's barf-a-rific!)

Thanks Craig and Jeannie for the informative posts.

I didn't mean to dismiss DriveX's or NaveX's in my previous post, so I hope I didn't offend anyone in any way.  As stated I am a beginner and was only aware of the basic premise of the NaveX's (didn't even know there was different types of TSD's).  Now that I'm a little more familiar with what they entail I will definitely try and get out to one at some point, and am certainly not going to dismiss any type completely!

I understand that a lot of you must hear the same tune quite frequently from people that want to get involved in the sport.  I am curious about constructing a rally-ready vehicle as most people are, but mostly because I actually like doing all the hands on fabrication work, and enjoy experimenting with suspension modifications in particular.  Even if I don't end up doing this, or if I do and it takes me forever to finish I would still be interested in attending with my soon to be semi-daily driving Talon.  

I definitely agree that meeting people and learning from them is one of the best ways to get involved in nearly anything, so I do hope to meet some of you in the future.  Whether I move to Ottawa or not depends on work (have an office opening up in February out there but am unsure at this point if I will transfer to it).  Either way I'm definitely going to look at getting involved in whichever events are closest to me!

P.S. - I may have to go home and dig up the Quest for the Holy Grail now, it's been a long time since I saw that!  

Edit:  John Vanos, I noticed on the MCO board that you were looking for someone to host some of your in-car videos.  I've got 5600MB of space on my webserver, and I think only 100MB of it is actually used   and I think I have 120GB of bandwidth/month.  The only problem with this is that at home I'm on dialup, but at work I'm connected through 8 T4's.  So I'm either going to have to find a way to get through the security at work and upload the files from there or setup an FTP login for you (if my host supports it) and give you direct access to uploading the files.  Give me a while to work on it and I'll let you know.  Either way I'm more than happy to let you use as much space as you'd like.