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RSO & BILL C19 - STREET RACING (Read 22024 times)
Ferdinand
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Re: RSO & BILL C19 - STREET RACING
Reply #15 - 11/09/6 at 18:02:53
 
It is encouraging to see progress being made, but it's still a little frightening to read some of the comments made during the Senate debate.  They still don't appear to fully "get it".

See my comments in the MCO forum including a precedent within the Criminal Code which could be used as an example to exempt sanctioned motorsport.

MCO Forum: Bill C-19 -- Street Racing
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C. Hamm
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Re: RSO & BILL C19 - STREET RACING
Reply #16 - 11/22/6 at 22:50:25
 
Late in the thread, but I will remind people that MCO is the **ONLY** club in Ontario (Canada?) that I know of that have used Time Allowances for SEVERAL YEARS now.  This should address some of the behavioural problems that Peter mentioned. There was a *grave fear* and I was chastised by the old timers when we brought it in that it would ruin rally, but I haven't heard any complaints about it since from the competitors.  I stood my ground, knowing it was right. Nobody ever had to make up 10 minutes on our rallies for wrong turn, anymore.  Anybody not enjoy Lanark the last three years, or the highly sucessful MCO summer series, complete with TAs?? I rest my case!
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Re: RSO & BILL C19 - STREET RACING
Reply #17 - 11/22/6 at 23:29:41
 
[ot] Craig, this October, both my navigator and I agreed that between many fine, dedicated & respectable organizers, you are indubitably the most anal one when it comes to safety, inspection, public relationships and rules.

We also both agree we wouldn't have it any other way Smiley

The TA's are a phenomenally smart idea, and I remember being confused on my first OWR why in the world they don't exist on this icy event, for beginner's class at least. At any rate, I hope the situation gets resolved in time for Lanark 2007! :->
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Ferdinand
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Re: RSO & BILL C19 - STREET RACING
Reply #18 - 12/12/6 at 16:41:29
 
The Senate Committee for Legal and Constitutional Affairs is meeting to discuss Bill C-19 tomorrow, Wednesday, December 13, 2006 at 4:00 pm, and again Thursday afternoon.

The Committee Agenda shows that Justice Minister Vic Toews and two lawyers from the Deptartment of Justice will be appearing before the Committee tomorrow.

I asked the Committee Clerk when representatives of the motorsport organisations would be appearing as witnesses and received a reply that the posted schedule would be updated shortly with respect to another meeting of the Committee on Thursday afternoon.  The schedule currently shows only up to Thursday morning.

You can watch Senate Committee meetings broadcast live on Video/Audio webcast. Check this schedule for the correct weblink.
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Ferdinand
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Re: RSO & BILL C19 - STREET RACING
Reply #19 - 12/13/6 at 12:42:32
 
The schedule now shows the Legal and Constitutional Affairs Committee meeting this afternoon (Wednesday) at 4:00pm, and resuming tomorrow (Thursday) morning at 10:45am.
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Re: RSO & BILL C19 - STREET RACING
Reply #20 - 12/13/6 at 20:58:26
 
Use the following to connect directly to proceedings in the Senate Committee tomorrow (Thursday, December13th).  Alasdair Robertson and several other representatives of various motorsports groups, including Targa Newfoundland and CASC-OR are scheduled at 10:45 A.M.

http://www.parl.gc.ca/Common/Committee_SenWebcast.asp?Language=E



http://216.113.10.94/Sen-A108-V-EN-VM

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Re: RSO & BILL C19 - STREET RACING
Reply #21 - 12/14/6 at 11:08:00
 
Listening right now... but holy... turn up the audio output feed... having to crank the audio on the computer means all the normal sounds are super amplified... not so good when you're at work!   Embarrassed
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Re: RSO & BILL C19 - STREET RACING
Reply #22 - 12/14/6 at 11:30:23
 
http://216.113.10.94/Sen-A107-A-EN-AL is the audio link.

The gentlemen from Targa was very well spoken, good work!
I'm sure the other presentations where good, but I only recently tuned in.

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Re: RSO & BILL C19 - STREET RACING
Reply #23 - 12/14/6 at 13:14:52
 
All four representatives who spoke on behalf of various factions of motorsport spoke extremely well and fielded the questions very well.  The Senators certainly seemed to appreciate their presence and input.

It was fascinating to listen in live on the discussions - certainly nice to see an aspect of government that is totally open.

Thanks again to Alasdair Robertson et al for doing a fantastic job of representing our interests.
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Ferdinand
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Re: RSO & BILL C19 - STREET RACING
Reply #24 - 12/14/6 at 16:19:26
 
Quote:
It was fascinating to listen in live on the discussions - certainly nice to see an aspect of government that is totally open.

Not only are the Committee Hearings webcast live, but any member of the public can attend and sit in the gallery to watch.  Since Parliament Hill is practically across the street from my office, I skipped out of work to sit in on the hearing today. It was very interesting, and educational.

Alasdair Robertson was the first up, and since he represents CARS and our rallying interests, I thought his presentation was the most pertinent and I was very impressed in how he delivered it. He is extremely well spoken in the things he said, and evidently very politically-savvy in the things he chose not to say. My only complaint is I wish he had been the last to speak, as his stuff really was the most important.

Scott Ellsworth representing CASC-OR described the many aspects of sanctioned motorsport within Ontario ranging from on-track events, to autoslalom events, and even ice-racing. Judging from the raised eyebrows and comments from the committee members, it was clear that none of them had any idea how hugely popular grassroots parking lot slalom events are in Ontario.

Charlie Johnstone representing GP Assoc of Toronto and Champ Car's interests in Canada was mostly concerned about the definition of street racing including any 'public place", which would clearly include the public areas of the CNE grounds in Toronto where races are conducted on what would otherwise be open streets.

Robert Giannou's presentation on Targa Newfoundland, including power point slides, was by far the most impressive as it illustrated what an enormous fiscal benefit the event has been for the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador.

Each one of the witnesses stressed that our sanctioned events are organised, planned, and conducted according to stringent safety regulations, bylaws, and applicable laws, and according to the regulations imposed by our own sanctioning bodies.

After the presentations, each Senator on the committee had an opportunity to ask questions. That's when the fun started.

They immediately shot down the Champ Car and CASC-OR events as being not applicable since they are conducted on a closed course not accessible to the public. Therefore there would be no concern related to the street racing legislation. This despite Senator Joyal establishing yesterday that a shopping centre parking lot is most definitely a 'public place'. I suppose it would all come down to how effectively access to the lot was controlled to prevent the public from stumbling into a Solo event.

Similarly the 'racing' portion of Targa Nfld, and other CARS performance rallies, is conducted on closed road stages and therefore shouldn't be a concern. Alasdair raised a good point that the roads are not necessarily 'closed', but access is limited under the control of the event organizor for a length of time. I'm not sure whether the implications of that distinction were clearly understood by everyone.

Then things got a little murky as the example was raised again of how a hockey player using excessive force could still be charged with assault. He is not exempt from the law simply because he's taking part in an organised hockey game. Similarly, racers could still be charged with criminal negligence causing injury or death if the circumstances warranted it.

Each of the witnesses stressed the great pains taken to ensure that our events are conducted safely and according to the law. It was stressed that the Highway Traffic Act must be obeyed at all times and that anyone getting stopped for a ticket is automatically disqualified and excluded. One of the Senators asked if any participant had ever been charged with criminal negligence during an event. When the answer was no, the obvious next question was, so why are you so worried about this? How does it affect you?

[...]
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Re: RSO & BILL C19 - STREET RACING
Reply #25 - 12/14/6 at 16:19:50
 
Personally, I didn't think things were going our way up to this point. The Senators listened politely to all the presentations, but I still didn't have the impression that any of them understood why we were so worried about the proposed legislation. Organised motorsport is doing a fine job as it is. It's all done on closed roads, or on race tracks, so what's the issue here?

In yesterday's meeting, the Minister of Justice clearly said that closed road events are not included within the proposed definition of street racing, and even mentioned Targa Nfld explicitly. It was stated that if a case was ever brought to court, the Senate Committee transcript could be produced as evidence to demonstrate that the Minister never intended such events to be included. Scott Ellsworth pointed out the CASC-OR is a non-profit organisation staffed by volunteers and the cost of contesting such an issue in court could have serious financial consequences for its member clubs.

Somewhere in there, Alasdair scored some really excellent points that I believe may have turned the tide in our favour. Several times the Senators mentioned the additional "burden" imposed on the prosecution as they would be required to prove the extra condition of "street racing". In an offence already involving criminal negligence, it requires an additional step to also prove street racing was involved before the extra penalties could be applied. Thus the charge of street racing would likely only very rarely be laid.

But Alasdair explained that it would in fact be much easier for the prosecution to apply the street racing definition, as proposed, to a racer participating in a sanctioned event than it would be to the actual intended targets of the legislation, the spontaneous drag racers competing in impromptu events on open roads. Because our events are carefully planned and organised and advertised well in advance, and documented with easily followed paper trails, it would in fact be quite simple for the prosecution to demonstrate whether or not we were involved in a timed event on public roads. Thus the extra "burden" argument makes no sense at all. The only question is whether or not we are involved in a "race", which currently is not defined. Performance events quite clearly are a race. But it's not so clear whether transits between stages, or TSD road rallies on open roads could be considered a race.

I think it was only then that, at last, the light bulb went on and some of them understood why we're so concerned.

The four witnesses had submitted written documents including proposed text to be inserted in the definition of "street racing" which would explicitly exempt officially sanctioned motorsport. One of the very last questions asked by the Committee panel was whether this was the ONLY change required to make us happy. Unanimously, Yes!

Each of the witnesses agreed that we have no objections whatsoever to the rest of the Bill, and that in fact organized motorsport is 100% in favour of this Bill to get rid of outlaw "street racing". The only issue for us is the fear that sanctioned motorsport could somehow get swept up into the same category as street racers, and that the definition of street racing must be clarified to explicitly exclude sanctioned motorsport.

Alasdair provided an example scenario where Grandma loses control of her car, hurts someone, and possibly gets charged with criminal negligence. In contrast, anyone in a similar situation, but driving a conspicuous rally car, might automatically be slapped with the much more serious charge of criminal negligence while street racing.

After that the meeting took a recess and the witnesses were excused. My feeling is that the Committee finally understood the issues. It will be very interesting to see what develops from here.
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Re: RSO & BILL C19 - STREET RACING
Reply #26 - 12/14/6 at 21:24:26
 
Ferdinand, I would just like to say thank you for your detailed summary of todays events. Let us hope that the senators and everyone else took notice of the changes that were asked for and include it.

I am hoping that this bill with the changes may help with the insurance issue that many also face in Ontario. If the bill recognizes legitimate organized motorsport perhaps it may force others to recognize it too?
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Re: RSO & BILL C19 - STREET RACING
Reply #27 - 12/15/6 at 09:14:29
 
As was said, thanks for the summary Ferdinand.
Curious to know if there will be a re-broadcast of the hearings on the parlimentary channel, it'd be interesting to watch.
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Re: RSO & BILL C19 - STREET RACING
Reply #28 - 12/15/6 at 09:25:38
 
Yesterday afternoon,  despite the presentations from the four representatives of Canadian motorsport groups re Bill C19 (Street Racing) , who were urging for an amendment to be included in the Bill exempting properly organized and sanctioned motorsport events, the Senate Committee accepted the Bill with no changes,  took it back to the full Senate, pushed it through 3rd reading, voted to accept the Bill as-is, passed it on, and even had it signed by the Governor General all by 5:24pm.  Signed, sealed, delivered and given Royal Assent.

Clearly it was a very high priority of the government to pass this Bill into law.
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Re: RSO & BILL C19 - STREET RACING
Reply #29 - 12/15/6 at 11:27:21
 
See the following excerpt from the report of the Senate Committee that heard
our presentations yesterday:


DONALD H. OLIVER
Chair

Observations to the Ninth Report of the Standing Senate Committee on Legal
and Constitutional Affairs
Your Committee is in favour of addressing directly the problem of street
racing in Canada. It has, therefore, approved Bill C-19 without amendment.
We do, however, have some concerns with how the bill may be implemented.
We understand that the bill does not apply to races organized by a
recognized sanctioning body and subject to all applicable laws. The Minister
of Justice told the Committee "Bill C-19 would not include legitimate motor
sport activities. It will not criminalize races that occur on closed tracks,
circuits, or streets closed to the public, or to rallies sanctioned by
recognized motor sport authorities and conducted in accordance with the
law." The Minister cited the Targa Newfoundland race as an example of what
would not be included in Bill C-19.
Your Committee therefore requests the Department of Justice to monitor the
implementation of Bill C-19 to ensure that it is not used to criminalize
currently legal, sanctioned racing. We request that a copy of these
observations be forwarded to the Department of Justice so that it may carry
out this monitoring function.



Clearly although we did not achieve what we were hoping for,  there was
value in the efforts of Alasdair et al.  They put a huge amount of work and
energy into this initiative.  We owe them a large vote of thanks.
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