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Need some car advice, hmmm.... (Read 4911 times)
Grant
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Milton
Need some car advice, hmmm....
12/04/8 at 00:49:24
 
hey all... just hoping some experienced members can share some knowledge about their first car... sorry but this is kinda a long post, please read the entire thing if you can stand to  Smiley:

i recently picked up a '98 cavalier z24 with the intent of making it my first rallycross car... i had looked at results from local rallies and already own an automatic tranny 2000 cav that im very comfortable and familiar with so i figured it would be a good enough, cheap, easy to repair car to (more then likely) beat the hell out of while i get a feel for rally.

car cost me $1200 and the brakes, suspension, body and basically everything on it are in great condition... only problem is the engine has 260,000km on it... it failed the E-test from NOx emmisions, but mechanics told me the engine itself is making great power, and i drove it yesterday and everything seems great.

so now im trying to decide if i want to spend $900 (says the dealership) in repairs to have a throttle body cleanout, new oxygen sensors, ect done to have it pass emissions and let me get it licensed, or swap in a used engine i found for $600 with only 2000km on it....

problem with that, is my school auto shop (which helps me out with everything on my car now) wont even touch the 2.4l DOHC engine because apparently its murder to do any work on... teacher told me if ANYTHING goes wrong on that engine, id be better off to scrap the entire car then to frustrate myself trying to fix it. so id have to pay a shop $1800 in labour to do it the swap, which i clearly dont have.

so, based on this situation should i pay $900 to fix up a engine with 260,000km that will likely die soon under racing stress, pay $2400 for new engine in a $1200 car, or just drive the hell out of the car till the current engine dies and scrap a otherwise good car? thought about this for about a month and im no closer to a decision  Embarrassed

any help at all is MUCH appreciated.

Thank you!

Grant
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Wedge1
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Re: Need some car advice, hmmm....
Reply #1 - 12/04/8 at 02:29:20
 
So the only setback is trying to get it to pass e-test?
No problem!  It only failed on NOx?  The other tests passed?
FIRST thing to check: EGR (if so equipped).  That system could be faulty or just clogged up.
Next, check for any pre-cat exhaust leaks.
Finally, O2 sensor.  
Don't waste your time with anything else, until you've done those first, in that order.  They will make the biggest difference to NOx emissions.
Oh yeah, and one other simple trick if that doesn't do it, is you can just retard the timing a bit.  But you have to tread a fine line, because that could cause the other gases to go up.
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Daniel Buehler
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Re: Need some car advice, hmmm....
Reply #2 - 12/04/8 at 07:38:29
 
I believe (and I could be wrong) that if you take your car to a "licenced clean air" shop - the places with the testing and licenced mechanics - IF they deem that your car needs more than $500 in repairs to pass emisions, you do not have to do the work. The rule exists just for people in your situation, i.e. $1200 car $900 in repairs! You CAN NOT sell the car untill you do the repairs, but you can get the car licenced.

I had a lengthy discussion with the vehicle licencing office about this a couple of months ago. When I renewed my plate stickes and drivers licence I picked up a 'Flyer' detailing the ins and outs of this rule...

I'm sure this would work for you. You just have to do a little research.
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rallyrick
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Re: Need some car advice, hmmm....
Reply #3 - 12/04/8 at 07:44:38
 
The only problem is, he does'nt qualify for the "Conditional Pass" rule as he is purchasing the car & not renewing the plates. He therefore has to spend whatever $ amount to make it pass. The other problem with the solution offered by "wedge" is, the ign timing on this car is ECM controlled & does not have a dist, therefore playing with ign timing is not possible.    
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« Last Edit: 12/04/8 at 08:58:48 by rallyrick »  
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Daniel Buehler
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Re: Need some car advice, hmmm....
Reply #4 - 12/04/8 at 09:18:28
 
rallyrick wrote on 12/04/8 at 07:44:38:
The only problem is, he does'nt qualify for the "Conditional Pass" rule as he is purchasing the car & not renewing the plates. He therefore has to spend whatever $ amount to make it pass.     


Good information. Thanks. My situation involed a project car I allready owned and licenced.

Sorry Grant.
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logangtx
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Re: Need some car advice, hmmm....
Reply #5 - 12/04/8 at 09:42:41
 
How long did you drive the car before the emissions test? I remember my old Jeep (1st car) failed and the inspector asked me how long the car had been running before the test, it was about 10 mins. He told me to go take a drive up and down the 401 with some good speed and I shouldn't have a problem. I returned an hour later with a very warm car, he put it on the machine and I passed. I know a legit shop in Etobicoke that helps you massage your car in order to pass if you need a contact.

So it may be worth the gamble to do another test and see if you pass.

As for the repairs, I wouldn't spend a dime on that car unless you are planning on keeping it forever. My old Jeep was close to my heart, and when she needed repairs I gladly paid up until in one year I spent $1000 on brakes only to have other problems a few months later. If I had done all the repairs I would have been thousands into the car and it's a slippery slope considering the car sold for $1500....it's better just to get as much life out of it as you can and hope that when she dies you can re-coup some of the initial purchase price.

Now on the flip side, if you really really like the car, drive the hell out of it and in the meantime source a 2.2 ecotec engine. The swap is pretty painless and the ecotec engines are a lot easier to work on. $1800 is a little high for labour cost to swap an engine...best would be to do what I did and join a forum for your car (in your case the j body club) and make some friends. I'm currently re building a spare engine for my GTX with two guys who know their stuff and they work for food and beer. Also I would be weary of a car with 2000km on the engine unless it’s brand new, I know with Cav’s and Sunfires the salvage cars sit around for a LONG time and a lot of those used engines with very low km’s are mucked up because they have been sitting for years. Easiest way to swap any car is to buy a fresh salvage, do the swap and then scrap the car.

Feel free to pm me
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Wedge1
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Re: Need some car advice, hmmm....
Reply #6 - 12/04/8 at 10:07:38
 
rallyrick wrote on 12/04/8 at 07:44:38:
The other problem with the solution offered by "wedge" is, the ign timing on this car is ECM controlled & does not have a dist, therefore playing with ign timing is not possible.    


Even on distributorless engines, there's still got to be some type of adjustment to set the base timing.
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Re: Need some car advice, hmmm....
Reply #7 - 12/04/8 at 14:26:32
 
Sometimes yes, sometimes no.  

Sometimes the adjustment is built into a crank position sensor.

However, often the sensors are non-adjustable.  The 5-cyl 20v turbo audi engine (AAN) uses 3 sensors to determine timing, and all are non-adjustable.  Individual coil-on-plug setup.
-flywheel TDC pin
-flywheel 135 tooth sensor
-camshaft TDC window.

If you want to "adjust the timing"... you either get some sort of tunable chip and swap into the ECU after altering the timing map.  Or you install a standalone system and tune the timing in there.


On the distributor-based non-turbo 10v engine in my 90q... the distributor is non-adjustable (although I have seen it defeated on atleast one car).  All timing adjustment is done by the ECU and not designed to be adjustable by mechanical means.  5 window (or was it 1 window) sensor on the distributor hall sensor, TDC pin.   Timing is adjusted by the ECU alone.
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Grant
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Re: Need some car advice, hmmm....
Reply #8 - 12/05/8 at 03:48:44
 
wow, more responses then i could have hoped for  Smiley

1. the EGR was the first thing suspected... had a complete clean out and service which helped, but that wasnt the problem... cat converter was checked right after that... dealership believed it was the cat but after tested it they determined its running fine. the 02 sensors were actually the most expensive item on the quote they gave me... $350 bucks for a new sensor, which i laughed at to the shop worker's face... and in terms of tinkering with the engine's timing, id want to avoid going there as much as possible. i dont feel like putting anything like a standalone ECU is a good investment for a car like this... its a crapalier not a badass turbocharged audi haha

the spark plugs are VERY dirty and havnt been changed in a while... gonna do that myself soon, but wasnt sure if that could cause my nox numbers to be in the 700's. if that fixed everything i would be pretty stoked haha.... is it true that the cav/sunfire engines need platinum spark plugs? when we replaced them in my sister's sunfire they were like $60 a pop and dealership is saying they are neccesary  Huh

rallyrick is right, i cant use the conditional pass... gotta bite the bullet and get it clean or i cant get it licensed.
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Grant
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Re: Need some car advice, hmmm....
Reply #9 - 12/05/8 at 03:58:05
 
and to logangtx, the car came with eight 12 inch subs mounted in a custom enclosure built into the car where the back seat used to be... powered by 2 1800W kenwood amps, a seperate amp for the deck and front speakers, and a second car battery. i already have a local buyer (monday!) for the deck and front speakers/tweeters for $200, and im hoping to get around $800 for the subwoofers, enclosure amps and battery + wiring. so once i chop up the audio system i hope i can almost break even on my initial purchase.

i think i will definately try to drive the car around a bit and try to etest it again after i change the spark plugs... it has failed 2 etests now, but i bought the car with no plates so it had to be towed to the garage... that would probably make a big difference, now that i think about it

i was talking to my teacher about swapping in a 2.2. the only issues he said are removing the 2.4 (again, a ***** to even look at in his mind), and that the transmission might ave a different mount for the 2.2 then the 2.4... which means id also have to swap the tranny too to match the 2.2 engine, which i would prefer avoiding if possible. thanks for the advice on the engine swap tho... funny because when i saw the only 2000k 2.4l engine for sale, it looked VERY old in the picture... i think you may have saved me some cash haha
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Re: Need some car advice, hmmm....
Reply #10 - 12/08/8 at 07:20:35
 
$20 for the front sensor, $70 for the rear from the U.S.

http://www.oxygensensors.com/catalog.php?PHPSESSID=309e12c13d070d555bc1166602649...

But please call around and give a local Canadian parts guy a chance to match it first.

Where do you live?  You need to find a better place to go than that dealership.
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