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Rally lighting question (Read 8949 times)
Slowpoke
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Rally lighting question
12/29/8 at 09:52:10
 
A question for all of you folk who have been down this route before... People in the rally community are telling me that you can't roof mount lights for Nav Rally because of the HTA. I can't find anything in the HTA indicating this.

I'm well aware of the National Rally rule forbidding it for Special Stage rallies. I'm looking for an HTA reference only please. Ontario primarily, but perhaps Quebec too.

Thanks!
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Stephen

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RyanHuber
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Re: Rally lighting question
Reply #1 - 12/29/8 at 10:34:43
 
I was sure there was a rule in there about them not being allowed higher than the lower edge of the windscreen, but now I can't find that reference... Interesting...
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Ryan Huber
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Jeff_Hagan
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Re: Rally lighting question
Reply #2 - 12/29/8 at 10:36:47
 
Normally, you'd be able to look it up at www.e-laws.gov.on.ca, however, the site doesn't seem to be working properly right now.

I'm pretty sure I've seen the rule about headlamp height.  IIRC, it's in one of the regulations to the HTA, not the main body of the HTA itself.  I think the regulation is titled "Vehicle Equipment", but I can't be certain without actually checking, which apparently the government doesn't want me to do right now.   Wink

I have absolutely no idea what the Quebec rules are about anything like this.
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Oddball343
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Re: Rally lighting question
Reply #3 - 12/30/8 at 01:26:15
 
One would think with the amount of 4x4 trucks that have large light bars mounted over the cab of their truck that that particular rule isn't well read at all.  It doesn't actually seem to be covered under "Lamps" subsection in the "Equipment" section.  

Also have a question myself.  
"Strength of front lamps

(9)  No motor vehicle shall carry on the front thereof more than four lighted lamps that project a beam having an intensity of over 300 candela. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 62 (9)."

Anyone have any clue how they care to measure the candela of headlamps or what they're looking for here?
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Slowpoke
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Re: Rally lighting question
Reply #4 - 12/30/8 at 08:57:10
 
Oddball343 wrote on 12/30/8 at 01:26:15:
Also have a question myself.  
"Strength of front lamps

(9)  No motor vehicle shall carry on the front thereof more than four lighted lamps that project a beam having an intensity of over 300 candela. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 62 (9)."

Anyone have any clue how they care to measure the candela of headlamps or what they're looking for here?

I think it's measured about as scientifically as "loud exhaust".   Roll Eyes

However... if you think about it... that's even more reason to mount lights on the roof, because that's not the "front" of the car.
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Stephen

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Re: Rally lighting question
Reply #5 - 12/30/8 at 13:01:35
 
Slowpoke wrote on 12/30/8 at 08:57:10:
However... if you think about it... that's even more reason to mount lights on the roof, because that's not the "front" of the car.  

You may be opening a can of worms with that one, because there are restrictions about where on a car you can place lights of various colours.  I wouldn't be surprised if mounting white lights on places other than the "front" of your car (however you define "front") is illegal as well; making that argument with a cop or a judge might be a matter of jumping from the frying pan into the fire.
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Re: Rally lighting question
Reply #6 - 12/30/8 at 20:56:22
 
I'm responding from memory (and experience) so I may be mistaken.

If the HTA states that you can have no more then 4 front mounted lights it is hard to add extra lights while still complying with the rules.  I can't think of a car where you could legally add more then 2 more then what came with the car.

For 2 days, I had a setup similar to what James Drake had on his mk3 Golf.  4 hellas in addition to single headlights.  Before I used them even once I had been given a 110$ fine.  (This kind officer stopped to check on me as I was changing a flat. When I was done, he radioed his supervisor to inquire about my lights, he came back and asked me to turn them on, then gave me a ticket.)

I guess my point is that if you're trying to do this legally - in my opinion - it's hardly possible.  If you want to do it, you just have to accept the possibility of a fine.  If you do choose to add extra lights, I would keep them covered as much as possible.  

My 2 cents.

Anthony
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gully
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Re: Rally lighting question
Reply #7 - 12/31/8 at 09:13:43
 
Quote:
Before I used them even once I had been given a 110$ fine.  (This kind officer stopped to check on me as I was changing a flat. When I was done, he radioed his supervisor to inquire about my lights, he came back and asked me to turn them on, then gave me a ticket.)


I think that you could have challenged this in court 'Your Honour I only use these lights when offroad'

Regarding Candela there is no police officer who can calculate this. I did have an Electrical Engineeer crunch some numbers for me several years ago. After confering with others in his office and a couple of days of calculations. They arrived at the opinion that lights as supplied with vehicle are at maximum candela.

I am sure we have people on Forum that could calculate this

Pete g
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Pete G
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Re: Rally lighting question
Reply #8 - 12/31/8 at 14:10:40
 
"I think that you could have challenged this in court 'Your Honour I only use these lights when offroad"

I agree that I could have had the charge reduced or revoked had I been able to attend a trial.  At the time though, it was cheaper to pay up then miss a day's pay to make my case.
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soundcatz
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Re: Rally lighting question
Reply #9 - 01/06/9 at 00:28:24
 
From vague, vague memory, I seem to recall something in the HTA stating that the headlights of a vehicle must fall within a certain height, and I could be way off on this one, but I think the maximum could have been 120cm.

I remember this being brought up in a debate over lifted 4x4's blinding people... and there was also a reference made to those 'headlight relocation' kits that move the truck's OEM lighting down into the bumper.

Edit: Wow, should have read the OHTA before posting. I could be thinking of the Alta HTA. Just went through the lamps section and found no such restrictions on height, could only find this restriction on the number of lights:
Quote:
Strength of front lamps

(9)  No motor vehicle shall carry on the front thereof more than four lighted lamps that project a beam having an intensity of over 300 candela. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 62 (9).
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Slowpoke
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Re: Rally lighting question
Reply #10 - 01/06/9 at 09:01:36
 
Right, so you can have eight lights on the front, as long as there's not more than four on at a time.
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Stephen

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Re: Rally lighting question
Reply #11 - 01/06/9 at 18:24:32
 
It also isn't very specific on whether it's 300 total or 300 each .....
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gully
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Re: Rally lighting question
Reply #12 - 01/06/9 at 19:10:09
 
I really think 300 candela is for total lights all inclusive

From what I can find out 100 watts equals 120 candela

So two high beam plus two driving lights at 55 watts each you will be pretty close to the 300 candela number.

HOWEVER when you get pulled over the officer will not have a clue what your total Candela number is and if he feels lights are to bright its ticket time.

Up to you to go prove he is wrong in court
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Pete G
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Re: Rally lighting question
Reply #13 - 01/06/9 at 19:55:50
 
Absolutely. Just thought I'd point out the vagueness of some of the HTA stuff Smiley
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Re: Rally lighting question
Reply #14 - 01/06/9 at 20:50:32
 
Roof pod mounts on the Mazda, I can see it now Tongue
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Jamie - VA3HAX/VE3XTL - I break things and make loud noises
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