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Day Dreaming about a rally car. (Read 13203 times)
2000 Impreza
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Day Dreaming about a rally car.
07/21/10 at 14:54:42
 
Its been a pretty slow day at my work today so I have just been cruising around on the internet looking at cars.  Now its probably a ways off down the road but someday I would like to build and eventually race a stage rally car.  I know allot of people recommend buying a build car or having a shop prep the car.  However I really enjoy working on cars and would love to do as much of the work myself as possible.  So this has got me wondering what the best option for building an awd rally car is?  I presume production class is the cheapest route?  Trying to figure out what the best performance/reliable/cost to run etc.  I know 2 wheel is a cheaper route to go but I love awd to much and since I am still in the dreaming phase just wondering what other people think.
Audi A4 1.8t
subaru 2.5rs
Subaru wrx..
...?
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RyanHuber
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Re: Day Dreaming about a rally car.
Reply #1 - 07/21/10 at 15:08:30
 
An RS for sure, but I'd run in open just for the flexibility. Figure on spending at least $10k for a build, and that's doing 90% of the work yourself, and cheaping out and doing things like tremclad interior paint. Having just spent 2 years building my car, I'm an advocate for buying a prepared car, unless you're a masochist like me...
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Ryan Huber
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Re: Day Dreaming about a rally car.
Reply #2 - 07/21/10 at 15:12:20
 
Oh, and just to clarify, that's 10k not including the original cost of the car, or suspension.
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Ryan Huber
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Re: Day Dreaming about a rally car.
Reply #3 - 07/21/10 at 15:17:58
 
I am a big big Subaru fan so thats the way I think I would be leaning anyways.  Do you think the 2.5L will keep up ok in open?
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Re: Day Dreaming about a rally car.
Reply #4 - 07/21/10 at 15:25:36
 
or did you swap an sti motor?
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RyanHuber
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Re: Day Dreaming about a rally car.
Reply #5 - 07/21/10 at 15:29:08
 
Honestly, no. But it depends what you're looking for. If you're in rally to have fun, what does it matter what class you're in? If the $10 plaque to hang on your wall is the goal, then no, you don't want to run open with an RS. You need at least a WRX if not an STi to run with those boys, and be competitive. Or rather, you need the drivetrain. The nice thing with Subarus, you can run as an RS for a couple years, swap in a STi drivetrain later and move up. They're basically Lego. I just advocate running open for simplicity for parts, etc. Want to run aftermarket parts that are often cheaper and better than factory? You technically can't in production, though you'd likely never get protested because of it.

Another example, a 2 door impreza would be hell in production, because you can't replace the rear quarter windows with lexan, which means you have to either take seats out or crawl through the trunk to get to your rear strut tops. Open, lexan and dzus fasteners is easy. Stuff like that.
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Re: Day Dreaming about a rally car.
Reply #6 - 07/21/10 at 15:45:32
 
Actually that is a really good point on running the rs motor for a couple years.  I never really thought about the option of upgrading later.  I like to think I would be winning races right out of the gate but I would be happy to just finish some races and have some fun
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corywannamaker
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Re: Day Dreaming about a rally car.
Reply #7 - 07/21/10 at 15:57:02
 
Basically that is my plan. I am ( hopefully soon) starting my build on  my 09 impreza 2.5i I have been running the rallyx for 2 years now but have SO much to learn about stage rally. I feel very comfortable running PGT in the 09 for a few years to learn how to drive on the stage roads, work things out with a co-driver, service crew etc.etc.etc. and as said before Subaru's are like lego. When you are ready, swap it and go faster. It is always surprising how fast you can be with 170hp. I really don't feel like you need 300+hp to go fast. Nothing wrong with dreaming, I have been dreaming about building a stage car for 10 years now and I am finally getting to the point where I can. Just one more thing. I think that doing as much work yourself is a great idea ( what I am doing) so that as things break and bend etc You know what it is and how to fix it. If you pay someone to do the whole thing you may not know how it all goes together and how to fix it. If you buy a built car you have no idea what has been done right or wrong or how it goes together.  


Cory
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Re: Day Dreaming about a rally car.
Reply #8 - 07/21/10 at 16:11:14
 
"I think that doing as much work yourself is a great idea ( what I am doing) so that as things break and bend etc You know what it is and how to fix it. If you pay someone to do the whole thing you may not know how it all goes together and how to fix it. If you buy a built car you have no idea what has been done right or wrong or how it goes together."

My thoughts exactly.  I feel like I know a fair bit about car but I have allot to learn still and building a car from the ground up seems like a good way to figure allot of that stuff out.  The only thing that really has me worried is building a cage.  I am an ok welder at best, but I do have a few friends who are pretty proficient.
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corywannamaker
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Re: Day Dreaming about a rally car.
Reply #9 - 07/21/10 at 16:21:27
 
As far the cage is goes, i am going to pay someone to do that. For a few reasons. It is much easier to get it log booked when done by a someone that does alot of them. The cage will ( among others) be the thing that can and will save my life when I roll or meet a big oak tree at speed.


My plan.
get someone to install the cage
Get good suspension
Buy good seats, harnesses, helmet, and HANS
do everything else myself.

Some things are better done by the people that know what they are doing and have it all work out. Alot of engineering goes into a cage seat mounts etc. so in that case I will trust others
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Re: Day Dreaming about a rally car.
Reply #10 - 07/21/10 at 16:30:07
 
That probably is the best route I suppose.  I would really love to build my own cage but don't know if it really makes sense to try.  Its something I would really like to have confidence in.
For safety equipment I will definitely go with good equipment not something I feel anyone should skimp out on.
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Re: Day Dreaming about a rally car.
Reply #11 - 07/22/10 at 10:45:54
 
One of my concerns about building my own car is shell re-inforcement.

As a novice builder and with little access to people who have built my particular car into a gravel rally car then where to reinforce the shell so it doesn't break on the first jump I take is an issue for me ?

I presume that even for a Subaru that seam welding isn't enough to have the car last more than a season or two as you learn.

For the Subaru I presume you could also get lots of advice from folks that have gone before.

Chuck
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corywannamaker
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Re: Day Dreaming about a rally car.
Reply #12 - 07/22/10 at 11:10:07
 
I am assuming that you would reinforce the cars in a similar way. If you talk to any of the shops that build rally cars I am sure that you can get answers how to do it or who else to talk to. The one thing that is great about rally is everyone ( in my experience) is willing to help new people get into the sport.
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Re: Day Dreaming about a rally car.
Reply #13 - 07/22/10 at 12:38:27
 
As far as reinforcing weak points in a car; while it's handy to build a Subaru since everyone has done it (lots of experience), there are plenty of other cars out there to glean information from.  Strengthening a car isn't that difficult; just a matter of figuring out where the forces are concentrating, what is weak, and how to distribute loads over a greater area.  

The real trick is figuring out how to do it without building a tank.  

Some major factors to consider when building a car is what you plan to do with it, how competitive you want to be, and just how much you want to spend?  I always figured I'd build a Audi rally car... but when you look at expenses, it becomes unrealistic...
-custom suspension (nobody else at an event will have anything remotely similar that you can beg/borrow/steal if yours breaks)
-outdated technology (torsen diffs sucks... and locking diffs are nice if you want to swap in older transmissions that have them)
-little aftermarket support (able to call up a few suppliers and have a full set of spares, performance parts, fancy diff controllers, etc etc)

Not saying we should all drive Subaru's... but it's all about how competetive you want to be, and how much money you want to spend.  

And a properly built car will last many seasons.  Look at some of the cars competing today that have passed through many hands.  Heck, Randy Zimmer in the US running a Subaru is a great example of what you can to do a car and how you can keep it going year after year.  I'm pretty sure his rally car has outlasted 2 tow vehicles!
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Re: Day Dreaming about a rally car.
Reply #14 - 07/24/10 at 12:24:20
 
Anyone have any ruff numbers on what it would cost me to have a cage installed?  I would do as much prep myself as I could, bring it to the shop all stripped and what not.  I suppose I could make some phone calls and actually get some quotes but figure someone here might have an idea.
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