MLRC Forum - Why not switch the driver and the co-driver?

overthehill Full Member Offline I love YaBB 1G - SP1! Posts: 236	Why not switch the driver and the co-driver? 02/13/11 at 21:43:55 See it here at WRC Sweden: http://www.wrc.com/news/co-driver-patterson-takes-the-wheel-in-sweden/?fid=14162... and video is here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6-UUkdQ3UA&feature=player_embedded#at=17
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Angela YaBB Newbies Offline Posts: 23	Re: Why not switch the driver and the co-driver? Reply #1 - 02/14/11 at 07:41:10 Was there comm out as well? I saw that on the few shots of in car, Petter looks like he is signaling the turns with his hands...
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GuyLePop Junior Member Offline Posts: 66	Re: Why not switch the driver and the co-driver? Reply #2 - 02/14/11 at 09:14:37 I noticed that too. I just assumed that Petter is maybe an animated talker and that was more of a subconscious thing! That's why he'd be no good in the silly seat! I liked how at the end he can't take it anymore and starts shifting gears for Patterson as well! It must be hard to relinquish control.
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j_gardhouse YaBB Administrator Offline On hiatus - drinking the two wheeled koolaid. Posts: 387	Re: Why not switch the driver and the co-driver? Reply #3 - 02/14/11 at 10:52:42 My only question is how would this work out under CARS GCR's? I once offered to switch with my co-driver, who refused, based on it excluding us (from like what, second to last?) Those silly co-drivers.
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Alexei S Full Member Offline I hate trees Posts: 146	Re: Why not switch the driver and the co-driver? Reply #4 - 02/14/11 at 12:05:15 Paul, we could have tried that. But I would have had to strap on stilts to reach the pedals in your car
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Jeff_Hagan

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Re: Why not switch the driver and the co-driver?
Reply #5 - 02/14/11 at 14:50:19

j_gardhouse wrote on 02/14/11 at 10:52:42:

My only question is how would this work out under CARS GCR's? Cheesy

I once offered to switch with my co-driver, who refused, based on it excluding us (from like what, second to last?)
Those silly co-drivers. Grin

That was my impression as well (under CARS rules, anyhow), but I decided to check out the exact wording and was surprised:

NRR I.A.4:
Quote:

4. (a) During a national performance rally, no change of crew and/or vehicle as listed on the official entry form for the event is permitted and, further, the crew member listed on the entry form as driver shall operate the vehicle at all times while on special stages. Switching of duties during stages shall result in exclusion from the event, and the entry shall be recorded on the results as a DNF. Switching of duties during transit sections is permitted. See NRR IV N.

NRR IV ("Types of Route Presentation") has no section N, but NRR V does:

Quote:

N DNF
Competitors who are beyond their maximum lateness, have surrenered their timing card to a rally official, have missed a control or are unable to continue as the registered crew shall not compete further in the rally. Competitors who have not been informed by the Steward(s) that they are beyond maximum lateness may continue in the rally. (See NRR IV E 6) Competitors failing to comply with this regulation shall be subject to sanction at the discretion of the Steward(s).

Based on all that, from where I sit:

- the rules explicitly prohibit switching of a driver and co-driver in a national performance rally.

- the rules (further down in NRR I.A.4 from what I posted) state that it's up to the regions (as well as the organizers and/or stewards) whether to allow switching in their rallycrosses and rallysprints.

- nothing that I can find explicitly spells out whether it's legal to switch roles at regional performance rallies.

Hmm.

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Doug_Woods

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Re: Why not switch the driver and the co-driver?
Reply #6 - 02/14/11 at 17:46:50

Jeff_Hagan wrote on 02/14/11 at 14:50:19:

- nothing that I can find explicitly spells out whether it's legal to switch roles at regional performance rallies.

When I was on the CARS Rules Committee, I pushed hard to allow switching of the driver/co-driver in events of less than National status. The rationale was that we have so few stage rallies these days, that we should allow competitors to perform both duties and find out what they are good at and what they like. It also allows two drivers to own one car and share the costs and driving equally. In addition, having drivers do some co-driving and note reading is a great way for them to learn about team work.

Anyway, since I have not had any need to read the CARS Rule Book for over three years, I am not sure if the proposed rule got implemented or not. Sounds like it might have.

Doug Woods

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rosswood God Member Offline I love YaBB 1G - SP1! Posts: 697	Re: Why not switch the driver and the co-driver? Reply #7 - 02/15/11 at 03:56:43 You have concluded correctly. gentlemen. The current rule was wording carefully to apply to National events only. That leaves it to each Region to determine its own policy for other events, for exactly the reasons presented by Doug.
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Donnie Full Member Offline Posts: 169	Re: Why not switch the driver and the co-driver? Reply #8 - 02/15/11 at 09:35:11 This all sounds harmless enough, till "EGO" gets in the way...... Sweep teams are going to need more stickers.....,and intervention training
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rosswood

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Re: Why not switch the driver and the co-driver?
Reply #9 - 02/15/11 at 11:16:58

There are numerous potential benefits to allowing driver and co-driver to swtch seats, which BTW, RSO has decided to allow. One excellent example is for driver training - an upcoming driver invites a top driver to ride with him/her for coaching purposes. For some stages the less experiencced driver occupies the left seat with the expert coaching, but to complete the teaching experience, the expert then demonstrates what he has been trying to impart.

This has done several times in OPRC events with clearly tangible benefits.

Another benefit is to allow a team who are fully sharing the cost of their rally effort to also share equally the driving/co-driving experience.

There have been no obvious negative results from this practice.

Note - some nutsy boltsy stuff to this - the team must declare in advance their intent to switch and the more experienced driver must be listed as the #1 driver.

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Jeannie VE3JNE

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Re: Why not switch the driver and the co-driver?
Reply #10 - 02/15/11 at 11:23:13

Doug_Woods wrote on 02/14/11 at 17:46:50:

Jeff_Hagan wrote on 02/14/11 at 14:50:19:

- nothing that I can find explicitly spells out whether it's legal to switch roles at regional performance rallies.

. . . . It also allows two drivers to own one car and share the costs and driving equally. In addition, having drivers do some co-driving and note reading is a great way for them to learn about team work.

Doug Woods

Before Jim and I had to sell our rally car, that was our dream: to alternate driving events. No, it wouldn't have earned us many points in either the driver or co-driver category, but it wasn't about that. It was about the joy of driving, and being supported by the other person in a car we built and loved. Cry

Jeannie

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Donnie

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Re: Why not switch the driver and the co-driver?
Reply #11 - 02/15/11 at 12:52:57

rosswood wrote on 02/15/11 at 11:16:58:

There are numerous potential benefits to allowing driver and co-driver to swtch seats, which BTW, RSO has decided to allow. One excellent example is for driver training - an upcoming driver invites a top driver to ride with him/her for coaching purposes. For some stages the less experiencced driver occupies the left seat with the expert coaching, but to complete the teaching experience, the expert then demonstrates what he has been trying to impart.

This has done several times in OPRC events with clearly tangible benefits.

Another benefit is to allow a team who are fully sharing the cost of their rally effort to also share equally the driving/co-driving experience.

There have been no obvious negative results from this practice.

Note - some nutsy boltsy stuff to this - the team must declare in advance their intent to switch and the more experienced driver must be listed as the #1 driver.

Does this not complicate Start/ Restart for seeding purposes??????

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rosswood God Member Offline I love YaBB 1G - SP1! Posts: 697	Re: Why not switch the driver and the co-driver? Reply #12 - 02/15/11 at 13:55:45 For sure. The team involved would need to work closely with the organizer.
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Donnie Full Member Offline Posts: 169	Re: Why not switch the driver and the co-driver? Reply #13 - 02/15/11 at 15:34:12 And with regard to C.A.R.S Licensing ??? Linda's going to love this !!!!
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Alexei S Full Member Offline I hate trees Posts: 146	Re: Why not switch the driver and the co-driver? Reply #14 - 02/15/11 at 17:05:49 I just checked both driver and co-driver when I registered my license, because I didn't know myself what I'd be doing at PN anyways
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