Hi as you may already know they have a change class rules in the air for 2013 CRC. In that rules change Gr2 and Gr5 cars will be combining to create 2WD open. They have a big argument on another forum on the 32 mm restrictor ask for Gr5 since it's a major cost issued to installed such a restrictor. Lot of gr5 competitor speaks but no Gr2. I would like to know how Gr2 competitor feels by that announce and if you are concern about gr5 car does not have a turbo restrictor in the same class then you guise. The major argument is that whatever which power you got in 2wdyou can’t put it on the ground any way so Turbo is not really an advantage over NA motor. Honestly we all get beat By Peter, Zedril, Dubé, Vincent, McNelly ect…  and they are all Gr2 cars. Fern may correct me if I’m wrong.

I personally will not judging anyone way of thinking. My goal is not to create a big debate but more try to know what GR2 competitor thing (Peter K, John Stack, Paul, Gary, Andrew, Alex and all other). If you prefer to answer me by email I will assure you that your answer will be keep confidential.

Personally I use to drive Gr2 car couple years ago. Now I convert the same car on a Turbo Gr 5 car. Back In time I was thinking that Gr5 have a big advantage over my little Gr2 but since I drive that turbo engine I’m slower than before. I don’t know why. Mabe I'm to old...

I honestly don’t know what to thing about all that and I would like to hear the other side of the story before make my own idea of all that.
Regard
Pat
patrainvil ''at'' hotmail ''dot'' com

Pat,

Are you able to get some views from the Quebec 2wd contingent?

Quebec has a good population of Grp2 cars, and I suspect they might have something to say.

Alex, John Thanks to start comment on the tread, I hope other will follow.

Chris, I will try to colect info on quebec side either.

Regard

Actually - to add to my previous comment...  I am more concerned with keeping overall cost of entering events affordable (entry fees, 1 day vs. 2 day events) than with the cost associated with upgrading the car to be competitive at the top of its class.

I was really excited to see CARS finally go to a smaller number of classes - and then I read the restrictor rule for Group 5... one step forward, two steps back.  If it really is about driving (and it is) stop monkeying with all this bullshit handicapping.  Handicapping that is so much frustrating conjecture it's maddening.  Let's get people competing in two-wheel-drive cars first.  We've never had a sample big enough to draw conclusions about any of the arguments.

PeteyK posted a video somewhere (his FB maybe?) showing my old Group5 Golf - now Lance's, in a drag race against John's (now Peter's) Group2 Golf.  Lance's car is the configuration I saw listed on one of the other forums as the "we don't want people showing up with one of those - it'll kill everything!": a MkII Golf with a 1.8T  The motor is stock, with stock turbo, no restrictor, front mount intercooler, Stage 1 chip - peak boost ~20psi - it goes without saying that the car is very light.
The (heavier MkIII) Group2 car wins the drag race - go look for the video.

Restrictors are dumb.  They lead to the expenditure of money and tiny power bands from 4800 to 5400 rpm.

Loosen the entry requirements to 2WD - get people competing.  Gather actual data.  And then, if the data actually supports it, worry about handicapping (a limit to the number of tires or other ideas)

Robin

Dave Cotie wrote on 10/24/12 at 18:25:02:


I agree!

However, can everyone please pass your comments on to CARS via email so that your voices are heard as well.  I get the impression (from the discussion on Special Stage) that there are Grp 5 competitors asking to drop the restrictors and restrictions but there are only a very few Grp 2 competitors commenting and they are in favour of the restrictions.

Alexei S wrote on 10/25/12 at 08:59:35:


Exactly.  I remember reading a quote from John somewhere that the engine could be built for 'less than $10K'.   I know for a fact that the 1.8T configuration of Lance's car can be achieved for between $2500 and $3000 installed (and if anybody is interested, we have the parts handy and Peter would be happy to do this )  

So, IMO the questions become:
1) how much money do competitors want to spend getting to the 2WD traction limit?
2) how much money do competitors want to spend on rebuilds?
3) how do the answers to #1 and #2 impact the number of competitors coming out to play?

(those were all rhetorical questions)

rules rules rules - but where are the 2WD competitors?

Robin

Well to start I love love love Robins comments. There really aren't any quantifiable grounds for adding a restrictor other than a thought experiment and fear mongering. I really don't feel that high power 2wd cars need a restrictor; it's basically their tire size, gearing and loud pedal anyways.

It certainly is an added cost as there is a specific way to make a restrictor to get the best power and it's not the same price as a cup of coffee. Let's keep the costs of being competitive with the big boys and girls in open class.

As for Gr.2/Gr.5 as I see it now there are basically unprepared cars with minor or moderate bolt ons with maybe some gearing changes and then the all out prepared high compression NA engines or massaged turbo engines. It does seem that with more power you need to pay a lot more attention to your gearing; again drastically increasing costs for most cars which don't have a simple and cheap solution. As I see it though we almost have 2 classes inside of group 2 alone.

As for building an engine, it's pretty cheap for us Focus guys but then I'd be addicted to race gas, especially if a spec. fuel rule pops up in the next little bit. E85 would be preferred.

Andrew